• Real World "Kitbashed" Locomotives

  • General discussion about locomotives, rolling stock, and equipment
General discussion about locomotives, rolling stock, and equipment

Moderator: John_Perkowski

  by CorenDirebrew
Ge locomotive with EMD Cab http://www.trainweb.org/screamingeagle/ ... _behni.jpg

Moderator's Note: Thread title changed to reflect all manner of cab re-equippings, be it mounting Manufacturer B's cab on Manufacturer A's locomotive, or, as in the case of the Santa Fe, cabs built to order by company shops. Change complete 4 Apr 12 1045CDT
  by JayBee
One of two done that way as the result of wreck repairs that destroyed the original cab.
  by John_Perkowski
I remember ATSF for many years had the BEEP, a GP-7 rebuild from some form of Baldwin unit. I'll look it up tonight.

Cross-salvaged equipment is one way to save money, and saving money matters on the bottom line.
  by MEC407
I've seen several photos of this locomotive over the years, and what always surprised me was that they used an EMD cab, but kept a GE nose. Lots of questions:

Were the cabs salvaged from old EMD locomotives, or were they new?

If new, were the cabs actually built by EMD, or did the railroad reverse-engineer an EMD cab and build them in-house?

Did the "nose" come from the unit that received the new cab, was it taken from an old GE locomotive, or was it procured from GE?

If it was from the unit that received the new cab, how come it wasn't damaged during the wreck?

If it came from a different unit or from GE, why didn't they use an EMD (or EMD-style) nose?
  by MEC407
JayBee wrote:One of two done that way as the result of wreck repairs that destroyed the original cab.
I believe there were actually three of them... which makes me wonder if they really were wreck repairs or if there was some other reason. It seems very odd that all three locomotives would receive cab damage so severe as to necessitate a brand new cab, but minimal (or easily repairable) body damage, and minimal (or easily repairable) nose damage.

The other two units were:

4506: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1105475

4531: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1594769

4506 went on to become CMGN 8902: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1403561
  by MEC407
I can't think of any off the top of my head. I do have a vague memory of a Mexican Alco that was rebuilt with a GE nose... I think I saw it in the Pentrex video "Those Incredible Alcos, Vol. 3"
  by Allen Hazen
Missouri Pacific seems to have had bad luck with cabs! I think they (briefly) had the only Baldwin cow-and-calf switcher after one of their early Baldwins lost its cab, and I've seen a photo of a U30C being used as a B-unit, with no cab or short nose.

My GUESS-- I may have read something to support this at the time the units were re-built, or maybe it's a total guess-- is that EMD's price for a replacement cab was lower than GE's.
  by scottychaos
The ATSF "beep", EMD GP7 frame and long hood, with a Baldwin switcher cab:

Southern Pacific 7121, an Alco C628, wreck damaged, repaired by GE with a GE U-boat nose and cab:
http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/c-628 ... erenyi.jpg

The famous extra-long porch of NREX 9402, originally a tunnel motor, rebuilt with a shorter long hood, now classed as a SD40-2
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... x?id=77964

A bizzare CP Alco chop nose:
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u300 ... CP8460.jpg

The one of a kind Alco DL420, only one ever made, used as the Alco plant switcher..Hood and cab of an RS3, but in switcher configuration:

Alco RS3 with a GP long hood:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/pictur ... 5C1894.jpg

Another RS3 with a GP long hood!
http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/0 ... 999663.jpg

  by Allen Hazen
Thank you, Scot, for the gallery of weird and wonderfuls!
The CP chopnose RS-3 has to be in the running for "ugliest diesel locomotive of all time"! The first of Conrail's RS-3M (RS-3 re-engined with EMD 12-567 engine: the first one was actually done before the beginning of Conrail by either PC or EL) had the whole short hood removed, so it looked like an end-cab switcher, but with a back porch.

As for the two Alco RS-3 with EMD GP-style long hoods, these were re-engining jobs. When a (hood-type) locomotive was re-engined in a railroad's own shops, the new engine was often housed in the original hood: a tight squeeze in some cases, necessitating modifications: many Conrail RS-3M had boxy structures in the middle of the long hood because the original Alco hood didn't have enough clearance for power-assembly changes on the EMD engine. ... When a railroad sent a locomotive to a builder force-engining, the builder would often remove the original long hood entirely and cover it's new engine with one of their own hoods, as with these two. (An EMD long hood would probably be easier to fit an EMD radiator into, so the EMD factory staff didn't have to do creative plumbing.) ... The Nickel Plate had four Baldwin road switchers, which they sent off-- two to Alco, two to EMD-- for re-engining: they came back with GP-9 or RS-11 long hoods.

The Alco C-628 with the GE cab is most relevant to this string. GE has, over the years, done a lot of locomotive modification and repair work (often at a plant in Cleveland, OH). This photo is dated 1973, by which time Alco was no longer around to provide a replacement cab. So GE Cleveland (I'm guessing) ordered a cab from GE Erie.


Just WHY Missouri Pacific put EMD cabs on its damaged GE units I don't know (though my guess would be price), but I can fill in a bit of the history.
"Extra 2200 South" issue 56 (official date April-June 1976, though it probably came out later), page 9, has a photo (dated26.vi.1976) of MP U30C with no nose or cab: just a flat sheet closing off the front of the long hood. Caption says "U30C #3319was outshopped 6/24/76with damaged cab removed and hood sealed so it can operate as a "B-unit" until new cab arrives."

"Extra 2200 South" issue 58 ("October-December 1976"), page 9, has a photo of U30C 3311 with EMD cab (but GE nose): caption says "Fresh from shop, rebuilt due to wreck at Meeker, LA, is U30C 3311 at North Little Rock, AR, 11/12/76."

"Extra 2200 South" issue 60 ("April-June 1977"), page 11, has a photo, dated 8.v.77, of U23B 2256 with EMD cab and GE nose. Photo caption mentions that 2282 had "recently" received a similar treatment, and "Also temporarily cabless U30C 3319 showed up about the same time with anew GE cab." News item on same page doesn't add any further details.

So it seems that MP's "adventure" of putting EMD cabs on damaged GE locomotives lasted a few months, in late 1976 and early 1977.
  by MEC407
MEC407 wrote:I do have a vague memory of a Mexican Alco that was rebuilt with a GE nose... I think I saw it in the Pentrex video "Those Incredible Alcos, Vol. 3"
I dug out the Pentrex DVD. The Alco with the GE nose is featured in the C628 chapter of the DVD, which has a lot of footage from Mexico. The locomotive is an RSD-5 that was rebuilt with a 12-251C. The new model designation was API-620. The narrator mentions that later versions of this rebuild were known as BX-620. The camera pans over to another locomotive, which the narrator points out as a BX-620, but that one has what appears to be a normal Alco nose.

In both cases, the original Alco cab is intact; only the nose has been replaced in the API-620 that they showed in the video. I did a quick Google search for images of the locomotive ( Ferrocarril del Pacifico #550) but couldn't find any.

Does anyone know if this rebuild program was done in-house by the railroad, or by an outside company? GE-Hornell seemed fond of putting 12-251s into just about anything...
  by Ken S.
Nickel Plate rebuilt its AS-16s with both ALCO and EMD long hoods as I understand from pics of these units.
  by Allen Hazen
Sorry, I was wrong.
Missouri Pacific applied an at least one EMD cab to a GE locomotive at a later date than mentioned in my earlier post (two up).
"Extra 2200 South" issue 73 (this issue has the "official" date July-September1980, but also has "Published in September 1981" printed on the cover: apparently postal regulations required that they keep the official date of each issue what they had registered it as, but the slippage in actual publication was so extreme that the editors felt they ought to announce it as well) has the second part of a "Summary" of Missouri Pacific diesels. Note 30, on page 23, includes the sentence
"Thefollowing U23B/B23-7's have had EMD spartan cabs applied following wrecks:
4506 (ex 2256)
4528 (ex 2279)
4531 (ex 2282)
4534 (ex 2285)
4607 (2296)."
The 4607 was a B23-7 built in January 1978, so must have received its wreck repairs some time after that.


As to the Mexican rebuilds of RSD-5: I believe that the work was done in the railroad shops, but with the assistance/collaboration of the engine builders: the earlier ones (API-620) with aid from Alco Products International, the later with Bombardier (the owners, by that time, of Montreal Locomotive Works: I think the model number BX-620 was also used for some Bombardier export locomotives built new for use somewhere outside North America).
  by Allen Hazen
Re: Mexican RSD-5 rebuilds
"The Contemporary Diesel Spotter's Guide" by Louis A. Marre and Jerry A. Pinkepank (Kalmbach Books, 1989) has a picture of FCP 557 on p. 238. The cab looks definitely Alco-ish, the nose GE-ish, the long hood fairly square-ish, higher than the original RSD-5 hood. (There are three openings high on the side of the long hood and a boxy structure above it that I take to be a dynamic brake installation like those on Alco251-engined roadswitchers.)
"Among the few substantial upgrades of Montreal Locomotive Works projects are a series of rebuilt RSD-5s on Mexico's Ferrocarril del Pacifico. Empalme shops obtained "kits" from Alco Products and Bombardier (successor to MLW) to upgrade 23 units between 1979 and 1986. Number 557 is one of 13 Alco versions, designated API620 (Alco Products Inc., 6 motors, 2000 gross h.p.). The Bombardier versions are BX620 (Bombardier Export, 6 motors, 2000 h.p. gross)."

The Mexican railroads had many Alcos, and continued maintaining and upgrading them after the major U.S. railroads gave up on them. I think they upgraded some C628 to virtual C630 standard by installing alternators in place of the original DC main generators. And I think some Mexican shop re-engined a GE U33C (acquired from SP by the Mexican railroad after it was wrecked in Mexico) with a 16-251 engine! But I can't remember where I read those did-bits and can't provide documentation.