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General discussion about locomotives, rolling stock, and equipment

Moderator: John_Perkowski

 #1020463  by MEC407
 
Cool photo!

I found another API-620 / BX-620 photo on RR Picture Archives, but it doesn't have the GE nose that FCP 550 had. Maybe that was the only one with a GE nose...?

I'd call this a Century nose, or perhaps "Century-inspired"...

Here's a shot of FCP 577
 #1020509  by Allen Hazen
 
More from the reference library.
Marre and Pinkepank op. cit. (as us pedants like to say), page 310, has two photos of cab-challenged Missouri Pacific units. One is another photo of U30C in cabless form, the other is B23-7 (mis-identified as a B30-7A) 4607 with its... angular... cab. The caption to that one says that 4607 "received a homemade cab that looks more EMD than GE."

If that's right, and the cab was fabricated in the railroad's own shops, it answers a number of questions: like "How did they get it to mate neatly with a GE nose and long hood?" It also suggests an answer to the question of why this design rather than one looking more like the original GE cab. The cabs on GE U-series and Dash-7 locomotives, with their curved roof profile, would almost certainly have been harder to reproduce than this angular design. (Making curved pieces of steel out of the flat plates you buy from the steel mill takes specialized machinery. A steam era railroad shop might have had it-- boilers, after all, are made out of curved sheets-- but a diesel era shop might not have. When GE took over the former Erie Railroad shops in Hornell, NY, they found that the shop still had the boiler-plate-curving equipment, which they found very useful in their locomotive rebuilding work.)
-- Note that GE itself abandoned the curved roofline in favour of a "Spartan-ish" cab design when they introduced the B39-8E and C39-8E models in 1987: I think in a move to reduce fabrication costs.

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As for the different noses on the API620 in the link from the original post in this string and the link MEC 407 has just provided... I suspect the noses of these units were fabricated in the F del P shops, and that almost every unit would have been a bit different from the one before. I would think the "Century-inspired" nose would be easier to build than the "GE-inspired" one (front plate vertical instead of sloped, etc). I note that the API620 with the Century-inspired nose has a higher number than the one with the GE-inspired nose: I think there may be a general tendency for aesthetic refinements to be dropped in favour of simpler, easier-to-make, features as a program goes on (compare, for instance, early and late Pennsylvania Railroad T1 steamers).
 #1020516  by Allen Hazen
 
I am getting senile! The photo linked in the first post of this string is, of course, a U23B. I "meant" to refer, in my last post, to the API620 (FdelP 557) shown on p. 238 of the 1989 "Contemporary Diesel Spotter's Guide."

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Speaking of noses on re-built locomotives, look at the Santa Fe's 9500-series "SF30C" units: U36C rebuilt with some Dash-7 technology. The Santa Fe built all-new noses for them, to (I assume: the front, with its straight-across central portion and sides angles slightly back, looks rather like the nose used on at least early CF-7 rebuilds) their own design. I think I've read that fat engineers found squeezing beside the original GE U-series nose to get to the cab door awkward, so Santa Fe gave the rebuilds a narrower one.
 #1020522  by MEC407
 
I think those engineers prefer to be called "slenderness challenged." :wink:
 #1020597  by MEC407
 
I don't think it exists. But if it did, it might look like this:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y144/m ... m-ph2a.gif
 #1020858  by D.Carleton
 
I cannot think of a common cab used en masse on differing builds of locomotives. However, it has been reported that Norfolk Southern will rebuild DASH 8-40C's with the same cab now used on the SD60E program. If this turns into another NS capitol rebuild program then those head-on pictures will become confusing without a roster.
 #1020866  by MEC407
 
That would make sense, and would be a good way to breathe new life into those locomotives. This isn't much different than what a lot of railroads did in the '70s and '80s with their GP7s and GP9s -- "nose jobs" and refurbished cabs, or in some cases, completely new cabs.

Regarding GE and EMD locomotives with identical cabs, one possible example would be the the Dash 8-40CMs and SD60Fs built for CN. Aside from the ever-so-slightly different numberboards and grab irons (which often differ even within a single builder), the cabs are about 98% identical. If I had to guess, I'd say that CN supplied GE and EMD with identical specs for the cab, and the slight differences came down to the two builders' unique manufacturing techniques.

Dash 8-40CM: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=1868050

SD60F: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=357204
 #1021347  by Allen Hazen
 
Found a bit more about the Mexican (F del P) RSD-5 rebuilds.
"Extra 2200 South" issue 75 ("April-June 1982), page 14, has photos of API620 548 (with GE-ish nose) an BX620 579 (with Alco-ish nose). Caption notes that there are also long-hood different (API620 has door-mounted long-hod air filters; BX620 has filters in groups of three near roof-line of long hood, like late RS-11/RSD-12). Wording o the caption suggests that the different noses are characteristic of the different models (but I wouldn't be confident of that without photos of EVERY unit rebuilt: Mexican shop forces could be creative). Also that Bombardier and Alco Products Inc were "providing engines and components" for their respective rebuild series. The two types are so similar that my guess would be that the engineering was basically done once, with engines, etc, sourced from the two companies according to the rate of exchange between Pesos, USD and CAD when the contracts were signed!

Accompanying news item (dated May 1982) says that the API620 program continued after the beginning of the BX620 program, that the first five BX620 were 576-580, and that API620at press time were 547-554.

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Re the GE and EMD versions of the "Canadian" cab: thanks for pointing that out and linking the photos! The MLW version (on M-420) was distinctly different.
 #1032924  by MEC407
 
As was stated previously, it doesn't exist.