REAL problems with the 142

Keep this conversation on-topic. The topic is NOT "Discontented's" view of the railfan world.

-otto-

EDM5970 wrote:I forget in which order they came, (I think the Valley engine was first) but the NYSW's first SY was lost at sea when the ship went down in water too deep for economic salvage operations. It was supposed to be the 141. Using the insurance money, NYSW bought the Valley's engine and numbered it 142.

The other SY is on the Knox and Kane in PA. Boone Valley has an engine that is a bit different and a little large; I seem to remember that it is an SJ class. So, there were only three SYs exported to the US, one at the bottom of the ocean, the 142 and the K&K engine.

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Thanks for the info. I knew there was a connection among the several steamers, jus wasn't sure precisely how it fit together.

The railroad is a business and has a purpose, that is correct, however, there is as aspect that every successful business must have, but the railroads sorely lack in this department......thats public relations.

With the exception of the UP, it seems that every freight railroad does its best to hide itself in teh closet and make itself invisible.....how do you drum up business that way? Make the general public more aware of the railroad, what it does, where it goes and how it works, and you will get more customers. Maybe not JB hunt or UPS type companies, but little, smaller businesses, who previously didn't think about or care about the railroad and the service it can provide.

Also, a good reception and event to cater to the public will warm the gennerally cold's public's heart, and maybe when the railroad needs to upgrade or expand single to double track, or build a new facility, the locals might not be so fast to, for lack of a better word, NIMBY (used as a verb) against the project. If the railroad is good neighbors with the community, the community will be a good friend to the railroad, when the railroad needs it. This might save them time, money and legal expenses when this time comes.

If I was a shareholder or customer of the railroad, I would gladly welcome events like the steam excursions because in the end, it will help my service or investment one way or another. Gotta look at the big picture....

Keep this conversation on-topic. The topic is NOT "Discontented's" view of the railfan world.

I'm guessing that was directed at my "response" to Discontented? (being that it appeared right after my post...)
Sorry, Otto, I thought it was in line with the topic...

Sigh..... I guess we just wanted to let off a little steam.
(Oh no, he didn't just use that cliche!)

Okay, movin' on...
BigDell

The real problem now is will the engine be fixed in time to go to the Northern Division of the NYS&W for the weekend of the 16th?

Is this the same type problem that happened at the Lincoln Park Days trips two years ago? That required the removal of an entire wheelset / axle to be rebuilt, taking several months.

I hope this does not hurt the PR the Techies have with NJT.

Chris

Discontented_Railfan wrote:Yes sorry, I apologize, Mr. Vondorko...

Wow... I was trying to keep the rest of the members here from focusing on your bitter attitude towards recreational railroading. Flaming one of the Site Admins is NOT a way to make friends here, "Discontented" (or maybe you're spelling is as crummy as your attitude). One more strike and you're going to be "Discontinued_Railfan."

-otto-

I had been holding off on commenting, but after a good nights sleep, and time to absorb the comments and thoughts and opinions in this thread, I feel compelled to comment.
I was the engineer on the NJT 4149 on Saturday and part of Sunday, and I was on the train when the defect developed. It should be noted that after the situation at Lincoln Park two years ago, the THS invested in bearing sensors that would indicate when the temperature was abnormally high. They did exactly what they were purchased to do, and the result was a short stop west of Raritan to do the inspection. I was not informed of the nature of the problem, but simply told to stop which I did. The temperature rose abnormally high in an abnormally short period of time.
The decision was then made to continue east to Westfield and then into the Garwood industrial track, and as instructed I kept the speed to no more than 30 MPH. Upon arrival at the industrial track, the inspection was made, and it was determined to scrub the 12:25 trip, and althought nothing was said outright, it was hoped the 3:25PM trip could be run somehow.
Eventually, it was determined, after some repairs performed by the mechanical geniuses on the 142, that the last trip would in fact run, but at 4:25. The crew then took the train out on the main, and ran east approx. 1.5 miles, stopped, checked the bearings, then shoved back to Westfield for the last trip, run an hour later at 4:25, and most people, once enlightened, to the situation, were forgiving.
During this trip it was decided to cut the loco off on the eastbound trip and drop it into Dunellen yard for a more detailed inspection, although we did do 25 MPH coming east from North Branch.
It should be noted, that the crew of the 142 take their responsibilities VERY seriously, and are by no means "amateurs" in ANY sense of the word. They, like myself are qualified on NORAC rules, the mechanics of the locomotive and are consummate professionals in operations. There is a reason why the T&HS has been allowed to operate over NJT with the only mainline steam operation on a regular basis. So as far as selling the thing to a bunch of amateurs, I find this charge wholly unfounded and levelled by someone who may not be familiar with all what has to take place on these trips. and if you think I'm kidding, listen to the radio chatter between the on board crew chief, the 142, and myself on the 4149. I will say that the NYSW T&HS, myself, and the 142 crew are accountable to several administrative bodies, such as NJT, the FRA, and any and all RR's run over, and NOT to railfans who like to second guess an operation in which they have very little technical knowledge. I am not singling anyone out, but the armchair quarterbacking is what makes railfan-railroaders dislike railfans that aren't railroaders in general.
And as far as any alleged rules violations that may have occurred during the move last week, that is not a matter for general consumption as Sirsonic has noted in a different thread. It has been addressed, no one's safety was in jeopardy, and the matter is considered closed by all parties involved, and yet for some reason there are those who will not recognize this fact(and for the most part they are not even railroad employees)
The T&HS has, through the graciousness of NJT, CR, and the NYS&W , in the past few yeats been able to provide the only NY area steam operations, whether it be on the Bel-Del or on NJT or on the NYS&W. A little appreciation for the damned near heroic efforts of the 142 crew goes a along way, and I know that more than one of them reads these forums/threads.
So appreciate the efforts to make these trips run( I saw several people from these forums both trackside and on the train, thereby supporting them as best they could), all the mechanical, technical, and yes even political angles to make them come to fruition. Recall the 142 has been running for over 12 years, and its track record overall is enviable. Be optimistic, hope for the best and the 142 will live to run another day. OK sermon's over... time to get off my soapbox...

Discontented _Railfan wrote:I'm sorry, did you say something?

Yeah he did. I was a car attendant on both days, and I have to say that the level of professionalism was excellent! I have never seen a group of individuals work this close together to make an event like this happen, even in times of trouble like this weekend! I was even there on Thursday and Friday preparing the train for the trips, cleaning toilets, mopping floors, cleaning windows, taking trash out, make it look nice for presentation. Judging by all your posts you would probably seem to pig headed to realize all the work that is needed to make an event like this happen!

If you call screaming at people and walking around with an arrogant attitude because your a train volenteer a team effort and a professonal attitude, well then thats your call...

I don't know about the screaming, but at least the volunteers can type and use the English language effectively without resorting to the invective and ad hominem attacks that the "Discontented Railfan" likes to employ. So, as an outsider, it would appear to me that the volunteers have adequately explained all issues, and that DR is just whining about some past slight that is unrelated to the topic of the post.

Please define "screaming at people". I would hardly call my post, nor the one that followed by "njt5140" screaming. And if you have a sense of arrogance, than please document what you find arrogant in either post. I simply was trying to call it as i saw it, and if you feel that there is a tone of arrogance there, then that is your opinion, unless you see facts to back it up. the FACT is, that while there have been mechanical difficulties with the 142 in the past(all well documented in this as well as other forums), The NYS&W T&HS has never had an injury to its crew members nor to its passengers. Our safety record speaks for itself, as does the amount of repeat passengers(not railfans so much as families wanting to take the kids on a train ride). Can we please everyone? Very likey not, BUT, what we CAN do as an operating group is to do what it takes to ensure a smooth operation, one that above all other items is a SAFE operation. So If anything I said comes across as arrogant, I guess thats a matter of personal interpretation. When things go well, we are, of course, going to trumpet those triumphs. When they do not, well, we will not shy away from them either. We CANNOT shy away from any difficulties that occur during our events(yes, I am a proud T&HS member and former officer) as we are so visible to the public, but thats a risk one takes being in the public eye; how to response when things don't go as planned.
With the scrubbing of the 12:25 PM trip on Saturday there were a LOT of unhappy people, no question about it. Some people were out and out pretty PO'd, but MOST took it in stride and efforts will be made to make amends to those customers(which is usually done in cases like this). As I say, you cannot please everyone, but I dare say our track record, in terms of customers is pretty good. And if you DID ride the trips, and had a problem with someone in particular please bring it to my attention or the NYS&W T&HS's attention via phone call, email or "snail mail". All concerns express in the past have been responded to, and will continue to be as they come up. But arrogant? I will simply agree to disagree, and while you have your points of contention, I take comfort in the overall track record of the NYS&W T&HS and our relations with those that lets us "do our thing", but most importantly, our customers. THEY are the ones who matter and are our bread an butter, not some unhappy and unreasonable railroad enthusiasts with an apparent agendga and vendetta against the T&HS and those things they are not fully enlightened on. My conscience is clear. if you still feel that I exude arrogance and such, oh well. My conscience is clear, as I feel you feel yours is. And i'll leave it at that.

Thanks rbcsd45. It is great to see you take pride in your work and your profession and to see your dedication to carrying it out right. Despite the setbacks, I thought everything went really well. The crew was excellent. The sheriff and the robbers were cute. Most people were understanding of the problems despite the dissapointment. It was funny though to hear all the kids at Westfield on Sunday at the noon run say when the train pulled in "That's not a steam engine!" Haha. I figured you were in 4149 on Saturday and waved at you as you passed and blew your horn at Fanwood on the morning run. It was also cool that on Sunday, they slowed us up to pass the steam engine and had it blow its whistle. People really enjoyed that. As the guy on the PA said "Wave to the Steam Engine. It's real sick." And I waved. The maintenance crews also deserve a congrats. I drove or rode by them a few times and they were always out there working on it. And yes, let's hope 142 does indeed make some more runs again. It really is a beautiful engine. I'd marry it if I could.

The one thing I should say is that I think they really should put the train back at Dunellen next year if they run it again. The platform was packed at Westfield. I was worried someone would get hurt or killed as the train and other trains pulled in. At Dunellen, there'd be more room for people.

Is it possible to put some members on "ignore"' like they do in chat rooms?

Yea Nick, that was me in the 4149 on saturday, as well as on the last trip on Sunday. Thanks for the kind words; they will not go unnmentioned by myself or the THS crew. To be honest I only saw a few faces i recognized, but this long hood lead stuff does suck. At least with cab signals you don't have to worry about seeing the wayside signals, but the visibility is what sucks!
As for Dunellen, trips from there were not held for a variety of reasons, some technical, some political and I will leave it at that. It is unfortunate, but as you noted Dunellen does have significant loading space.( I have to confess, however, that having a high level platform to work with does have its advantages too!)
But, the 142 will recover, as will the T&HS, all to run another day! Again, my thanks for the kind words and I'll see that they get passed along.

RCB

rcbsd45 wrote:But, the 142 will recover, as will the T&HS, all to run another day! Again, my thanks for the kind words and I'll see that they get passed along.

RCB

I look forward to it.

Trainlawyer wrote:I watched the rumor grow from an extra person in the cab to blowing three stop signals to the boiler falling off to something having to do with a girl who may have been twelve or may have been fourteen or may have been eighteen and who may or may not have gone to Rutgers. This was coupled with a few posts which appeared to have no purpose other than to vituperate. I suspect from reading both threads that no more than two or three people who posted have any idea what really happened and, quite properly, at least two of them are not saying.

Yup, your absolutely correct. Incidentally, as I am sure you have figured out, most of the so-called "rumors" you mentioned were not rumors but just some of us railfans and RR employees alike (I fall in the Ralfan only category) having a little fun. Maybe it got out of hand or was innapropriate. I don't know. I don't think so though. And you are also dead on about only two or three people on this board knowing what really happened (of which I am not one of them- nor should I be one of them- don't even want to know if it isn't my business.)

So in conclusion, I should like to say that I don't know anything (and you can take that any way you want.)