• Ramifications of "Brexit" for railways

  • Discussion about railroad topics everywhere outside of North America.
Discussion about railroad topics everywhere outside of North America.

Moderators: Komachi, David Benton

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  by johnthefireman
 
I think everyone in the EU would prefer the UK in rather than out (except the 52% of the UK electorate who cast vores in June), but wanting the UK GONE probably refers to the desire that if the UK is going to leave it should do so as quickly and cleanly as possible rather than dragging the process out.
  by ExCon90
 
I'm wondering about some of the 52%: now that they've got what they asked for, are any of them having second thoughts, now that it's too late? (like OMG, is THAT what we did?)
  by David Benton
 
ExCon90 wrote:I'm wondering about some of the 52%: now that they've got what they asked for, are any of them having second thoughts, now that it's too late? (like OMG, is THAT what we did?)
Many have likened it to waking up with a hangover , and wondering what you got up to the night before.
A big part of it was anti immigration , and I think they are now realising they wont be going home , at least not in the short term.
  by NH2060
 
philipmartin wrote:Interesting information. The only part I find unlikely is "EU "head honchos" want Britain GONE." That damages the EU, and could be a incentive for other countries to do the same.
Well with the news that the EU is demanding that Apple pay Ireland $14B in taxes they should have paid, but didn't because of Ireland -technically illegally- lowballing their corporate tax rate under 12.5% (some sources claim as little as .005%!) that has got some thinking that it's time for "Irexit". It certainly does call into question just how much control Ireland has over it's own money especially considering that they actually don't want the money. I suppose their desire to remain that competitive with other countries is their prime goal. However that tax revenue would help with infrastructure spending and eliminate the need for pay cuts (which will only increase the threat of strikes, etc.). Iarnrod Eireann has had too much bad press regarding those issues as it is. And on top of that the closing of the Waterford-Wexford/Rosslare(?) line back in 2010 -though it was apparently only 1 train each way- couldn't have helped.
johnthefireman wrote:I think everyone in the EU would prefer the UK in rather than out (except the 52% of the UK electorate who cast vores in June), but wanting the UK GONE probably refers to the desire that if the UK is going to leave it should do so as quickly and cleanly as possible rather than dragging the process out.
They certainly don't seem to be begging them to stay either. Which considering the UK's largesse (they dole out around 10 Billion Pounds Sterling to Northern Ireland annually for starters and I guess have enough to build HS2) you'd think they would.
David Benton wrote:
ExCon90 wrote:I'm wondering about some of the 52%: now that they've got what they asked for, are any of them having second thoughts, now that it's too late? (like OMG, is THAT what we did?)
Many have likened it to waking up with a hangover , and wondering what you got up to the night before.
A big part of it was anti immigration , and I think they are now realising they wont be going home , at least not in the short term.
Too many voters didn't even know what they were voting for until after they cast their ballot... Google reported that searches for "Brexit" surged astronomically in the first few days after the referendum.


Amidst all of this (and to stay on topic!) HS2 is still moving along despite being delayed and over budget. Though what to do about Phase 2 to Manchester and Leeds is still up in the air. Whatever happens HS3 or some sort of new Liverpool-Manchester-Leeds-York-Hull/Newcastle line shouldn't be left in the dust.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37339742" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
  by george matthews
 
It's happened as recently as last month. Of course "security situation" could mean any number of things.
http://www.newstalk.com/Part-of-railway" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... rity-alert
The terrorist threat is so common that the railway administration has a continuing plan. In my case the buses were lined up at the station waiting for the train and the journey was quite smooth but not as fast as the train would have been. But I arrived with just enough time to get into class.
  by dowlingm
 
The U.K. has been a reluctant of European Union for decades, and an advocate for American influence in Europe by being a strong proponent of NATO vs the Western European Union. For "core" European nations wishing to integrate more deeply, UK leaving removes a significant obstacle to that goal. The Brexit folks have gambled that they can have their cake and eat it, but if they do then some other countries like Holland, Denmark, Sweden might start to edge towards the door too. From a railways point of view, the closer the mainland countries stay together, the more likely the goals of the Fourth Railway Package are to being achieved.

As for Waterford-Rosslare mentioned above, the route is still operational for freight as far as Belview Container Port which is doing quite well, and the remainder of the route is annually weed sprayed. The route will likely be preserved due to the occasional issues with landslides that would otherwise trap equipment on the Rosslare-Dublin line for an extended period. Apart from local interest there was barely a ripple when service was withdrawn. Patronage was way down due to both significant reductions in foot traffic on the Rosslare ferries with the advent of cheap air fares (a result of deregulation by the European Union) and even with what there was, poor connection timings. As a commuter service to Waterford, it also suffered because the railway station is on the north bank of the river, and most of Waterford is the other side of it.
  by george matthews
 
The remain vote was about 48% which is a large number of people who feel unhappy about leaving. It won't be easy for the government to break the links - very complicated.

It's some time since I went to Rosslare but I used to travel that way nearly every year, usually at Easter. I enjoyed taking the train, though I wanted to go to Cahir and often there was only a bus.
  by Semaphore Sam
 
David and George:
The "re-vote" you pine for better happen soon, or there may not be an EU to return to... But, you have precedent on your side...the history of democratic votes on European Union membership is to "re-vote" after negative results, until you get the results acceptable to the European Commission, and declare victory. It has worked so far, who am I to say such Soviet tactics won't work again! As for the railways, they will probably remain in cooperation; it's in everyone's interests now, especially with the Chunnel in place, regardless of the future, or lack of same, of the EU, (or Brexit).

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/201 ... -JN9TvDPFI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

P.S. To paraphrase Delors...The "Ever Closer Vaterland" better put down those Eastern European and Mediterranean interloper malcontents. Sam
  by johnthefireman
 
Just saw an article in Railway Gazette on ETCS in Denmark (see First test for ETCS Baseline 3), and it reminded me that things like ETCS and ERTMS will almost certainly still need Europe-wide standardisation even if the UK leaves the EU.
  by george matthews
 
dowlingm wrote:The U.K. has been a reluctant of European Union for decades, and an advocate for American influence in Europe by being a strong proponent of NATO vs the Western European Union. For "core" European nations wishing to integrate more deeply, UK leaving removes a significant obstacle to that goal. The Brexit folks have gambled that they can have their cake and eat it, but if they do then some other countries like Holland, Denmark, Sweden might start to edge towards the door too. From a railways point of view, the closer the mainland countries stay together, the more likely the goals of the Fourth Railway Package are to being achieved.

As for Waterford-Rosslare mentioned above, the route is still operational for freight as far as Belview Container Port which is doing quite well, and the remainder of the route is annually weed sprayed. The route will likely be preserved due to the occasional issues with landslides that would otherwise trap equipment on the Rosslare-Dublin line for an extended period. Apart from local interest there was barely a ripple when service was withdrawn. Patronage was way down due to both significant reductions in foot traffic on the Rosslare ferries with the advent of cheap air fares (a result of deregulation by the European Union) and even with what there was, poor connection timings. As a commuter service to Waterford, it also suffered because the railway station is on the north bank of the river, and most of Waterford is the other side of it.
My memory of Waterford is that the station is on the shore but on the same side as the town. It was easy to walk into the heart of the town. They will continue to have trains from Dublin.
  by dowlingm
 
george matthews wrote:
dowlingm wrote:My memory of Waterford is that the station is on the shore but on the same side as the town. It was easy to walk into the heart of the town. They will continue to have trains from Dublin.
Here's the station in Google Maps. Switch to Satellite and Terrain to appreciate the situation
https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Plunkett+Station,+Sr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;áid+Cheann+Scr%C3%ADbe,+Co.+Waterford,+Ireland/@52.2622646,-7.1009885,12z/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x4842c682850155cb:0xf14778ed35c373d1

There has even been talk of moving the station west, further from town, because of rockfall from the cliff face immediately adjacent the station.
  by george matthews
 
Yes, it's clear my memory is defective. The town is clearly on the other side. I think i have stayed the night near the station but it would be 30 years ago.
  by dowlingm
 
Depending on whether a soft or hard Brexit is negotiated, it may be that the Channel Tunnel rail corridor now becomes a border in so far as open access by operators like Deutsche Bahn are concerned. And after all the trouble they had to go through to certify their trainsets over the objects of the French...
  by george matthews
 
British physical constraints will always prevent Continental trains from using most of the network. The high speed line to London is the only section capable of accepting continental trains.
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