• Ramifications of "Brexit" for railways

  • Discussion about railroad topics everywhere outside of North America.
Discussion about railroad topics everywhere outside of North America.

Moderators: Komachi, David Benton

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  by george matthews
 
philipmartin wrote:Thank you, David, for the explanation. Obviously I understand George differently than you do.
Cheers.
Cameron gave the impression, and there are several press reports, that before the Referendum he assumed that people would vote "remain". But if that was so, for such an extremely important vote, he should have been better informed and tried a lot harder to persuade people to vote for it.

If Britain does leave the EU the consequences will be very serious indeed. The new PM is said to be in favour of remain. However, she has said very little about what she will do. She has put some of the madder of the "leave" MPs in charge of relations with the EU. It is possible she will wait until they make a mess of it and then dismiss them.
  by philipmartin
 
George's idology at work. No attempt at reality.
Mods note: I have removed parts of George's post , and Philip's reply.We wont discuss Donald Trump on here at all, it will only lead to arguements and censorship . George mentoned it first , And Philip rightly replied. I am leaving this here as an opportunity for George to explain his ideas on the EU better to Philip. Lets steer clear of the hyperbole , and remember, we are primarily here to discuss rail.
  by philipmartin
 
OK David. Sorry about that.
  by Jeff Smith
 
A reference to Brexit and rail: The Guardian

Relevant portion:
The solution, they argue, is a burst of well-targeted government spending to protect the economy.

Here’s general secretary Frances O’Grady:

“The slight uptick in inflation is likely to be followed by further increases in prices as the weak pound feeds through to higher costs for every day goods.

“And following the decision to leave the EU there is a real threat to jobs and growth.

“That’s why the TUC is calling for urgent government action to ensure working people do not pay the price for Brexit. The government should act now to increase investment in infrastructure, build new homes, announce plans for more high-speed rail and give the go-ahead for a third runway at Heathrow.”
  by Jeff Smith
 
ADMIN: Thank you David for moderating this discussion. I hope you don't mind an assist. I just deleted two comments that continued the debate over ideology and Trump, etc. etc.

George and Phillip, an informal "advisory" to stay on topic. That topic is RAIL. To add to David's comments, I don't care who started it, and who responded, it's done. I've allowed politics on this board since I took over late in 2010, but ONLY as it pertains to railroad. For instance, if you want to talk about Trump, you might want to say that he's pro-high-speed-rail. THAT'S RELEVANT. What does he have to do with Brexit? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. The vote on Brexit happened; it's a fact. How it relates to RAIL is relevant. Brexit's repeal, reversal, or whatever damage you think it may do to Britain is NOT. Unless it pertains to RAIL.

Got it?

Please, I like this topic. You're both valued on this forum for your rail knowledge and contributions thereto. Don't make us lock the topic.
  by george matthews
 
Semaphore Sam wrote:Could this be an effect of Brexit? Balfour was in a hole before, things starting to look up? Sam

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mark ... ilway.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The British infrastructure firm will electrify the line from San Francisco to San Jose, a track used by 65,000 commuters a day.
65,000 commuters a day is a very modest ridership.
  by David Benton
 
I guess it is possible Balfour Beatty would look elsewhere for work , as a consequence of Brexit.
Though they are an international company, I think they were the contractor of the NZ North Island main trunk electrification in the 1980's. They have certainly been active here in the past.
  by NH2060
 
(As a follow-up to my earlier post regarding whether or not there would be a border check)

There's a video on YouTube from 1993 taken by a user who was given a cab ride from Dublin to Belfast. At about 1:10:00 the train slows down to a crawl at a point just south of Newry where there appear to be CCTV cameras, etc. mounted at trackside. Immediately to the left of the ROW appears to be the location of the A1 carriageway border check. So even if there wasn't a proper customs check at that time the train itself was being "big brothered". Note @ 2:03:00 the lack of rails to the "new" Great Victoria Street station as it was still about 2 1/2 years from reality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XEmw9XN4Os" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also -according to Wikipedia- there were customs checks on the old "Enterprise Express" going back to the late 1940s/early 1950s (well before the Troubles started), but that they were limited to being done @ the Dublin and Belfast terminals. Nothing on customs checks during the '70s, '80s, and '90s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_(train_service" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)#History
  by dowlingm
 
There is an impression abroad that the UK political establishment worries quite a bit about the implications for Scotland and not much about Northern Ireland, even though the peace process there is built on several pillars which leaving the EU at the very least shakes. There are occasional visa checks being done on some public transport services between Dublin and Belfast - some people don't realise that a visa for the UK does not automatically confer freedom of movement to the ROI as well. At least once someone has found that out (that there are checks) the hard way.

It is likely that the CTA would remain and that Ireland would continue to stay outside the Schengen area, but depending on the relationship with the EU going forward, customs controls may be required even if immigration controls are not. At present, there is no cross border railfreight operations between ROI and NI (no railfreight in NI at all), so no issue with that, but I suspect that as far as rail passenger services are concerned it would be more rolling spot checks than a full stop and check.
  by george matthews
 
I was pleased to notice the last time I was on the train from Dublin to Belfast there were no stops at all for checks. Though I was not happy when I had to get off at Newry and take a bus because of terrorist activity. I was nearly late for a class I was to take in Belfast.
  by NH2060
 
dowlingm wrote:There is an impression abroad that the UK political establishment worries quite a bit about the implications for Scotland and not much about Northern Ireland, even though the peace process there is built on several pillars which leaving the EU at the very least shakes. There are occasional visa checks being done on some public transport services between Dublin and Belfast - some people don't realise that a visa for the UK does not automatically confer freedom of movement to the ROI as well. At least once someone has found that out (that there are checks) the hard way.

It is likely that the CTA would remain and that Ireland would continue to stay outside the Schengen area, but depending on the relationship with the EU going forward, customs controls may be required even if immigration controls are not. At present, there is no cross border railfreight operations between ROI and NI (no railfreight in NI at all), so no issue with that, but I suspect that as far as rail passenger services are concerned it would be more rolling spot checks than a full stop and check.
Agreed. Scotland is indeed the "will they or won't they" topic at this point. This becomes even more so with the only options being A) staying in the UK B) going it alone and regaining EU membership. No "special consideration" option; same with Northern Ireland. And from what has been reported in the press the EU "head honchos" want Britain GONE from the union. As if the UK insulted their mother at a dinner party...


As for the peace process I don't think it's that black and white pertaining to violence erupting again. In fact for the first time since the partition in 1922 both the Republic and the North have a seriously rock solid invested interest in something pertaining to economic gains/consequences. The North voted I think 56% Remain and 40-something % Leave. And to add to that support for a United Ireland has increased 5% or so since 2013(?) and bear in mind there are Catholics who want to stay with the UK. As long as both parties agree on wanting to be EU members I doubt the peace process will be jolted in any form; that includes any threats/attacks from one IRA splinter group or another. Even during the height of the Troubles both countries and their respective rail agencies (the CIE/Iarnrod Eireann and Ulster Transport Authority/Translink/NIR) shared a vested interest in supporting the Dublin-Belfast rail services. At times it surprises me that there even were trains crossing the border during that time given that -to an extent- Dublin wanted a say in affairs in Stormont and London had ended the original power sharing agreement in the early/mid 1970s and replaced it with "direct rule".


And yes the CTA absolutely must be preserved. Putting in a hard border would be like having your passport checked, etc. on I-95 and Metro-North's New Haven Line when crossing the NY/CT border if say New England became its own sovereign country. If the Enterprise was a non-stop express I can see rolling customs checks or even a check before boarding being a piece of cake with a "hard border", but that of course would never happen as it would lose out on riders from Drogheda, Newry, Portadown, etc.
george matthews wrote:I was pleased to notice the last time I was on the train from Dublin to Belfast there were no stops at all for checks. Though I was not happy when I had to get off at Newry and take a bus because of terrorist activity. I was nearly late for a class I was to take in Belfast.
It's happened as recently as last month. Of course "security situation" could mean any number of things.
http://www.newstalk.com/Part-of-railway ... rity-alert" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


On a related note here's an archived news clip from RTE from 1989 of the "Peace Train" being held @ Portadown -then at Newry and then Portadown again- due to a bomb scare north of Dunkalk (and no Cat Stevens wasn't onboard ;-))
http://www.rte.ie/archives/2014/1028/65 ... ace-train/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
  by philipmartin
 
Interesting information. The only part I find unlikely is "EU "head honchos" want Britain GONE." That damages the EU, and could be a incentive for other countries to do the same.
  by David Benton
 
As with anything political, the talk is probably more extreme than the intention. Obviously the EU would be stronger with the UK in,as would the UK.
I hope Ireland is not unsettled by whatever happens, the "troubles" were such a waste of life and energy.
  by george matthews
 
philipmartin wrote:Interesting information. The only part I find unlikely is "EU "head honchos" want Britain GONE." That damages the EU, and could be a incentive for other countries to do the same.
It is difficult to know what various political leaders in Europe think. I think many of them are annoyed with British attitudes to the Union, and criticisms of various aspects of the union. I doubt if they actually wish Britain out, but are trying to adjust to the apparent desire to leave (but note that the majority for Leave was rather small). This is a story that is by no means finished.
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