Rail gun moving from Aberdeen Proving Grounds?

Arrestmespi wrote:Aberdeen Proving Ground and the Edgewood Aresenal have(had to a point) extensive railroad including 3 or four gauges, on base passenger service, interchange with the PRR/PC/CR/Amtrak/NS though it is quite scaled back if not dormant now. They are planning on trying to move the huge rail gun via a special shipment over Amtrak/NS to Ft. Lee I believe. There are plans to use part of the base railroad as a MARC train yard.

That would be a movment I would love to see pictures of.

That rail gun move would be worth the drive down there. I'll call the base tomorrow to see what information I can get about the timetable for the move. I can't imagine that monster is going to go through the B&P tunnels, so I'd imagine we'll end up one day either seeing it go under center city on CSX or taking a westerly route out towards Hagerstown.

I think the railgun movemement and the movement of several other "awkward" pieces (perhaps Atomic Annie or the T-90 American Arty piece?) probably won't happen for quite a while. As I have heard that Ft Lee hasn't even broken ground for the new museum building. The funds were diverted to overseas needs. The pieces that have been moved from Aberdeen are evidently all lined up hub to hub in exposed condition, not what was originally planned for. I hate to think of the damage that will be incurred until the building gets put up.

I'm not sure what all the excitement is about. I'm sure the rail cannon will be moved on what we affectionately call "Interstate 95."

There is no way that it will ever move on its own wheels on a commercial railroad...

Overall length and weight would probably prevent a road movement. It is 70 ft long and 230 tons. I found this on Flickr by Ron Hilton http://www.flickr.com/photos/hilton_photos/1308989119/ I have no idea how they would handle the wheel trucks issue. They are 2 trucks with 12 wheel each. Maybe it is feasible to barge out? There is also a piece of artillery the size of a Coastal Artillery gun, and several other pieces that are not going to fit on the road.

It will cost us taxpayers a lot of money to relocate Aberdeen. Didn't they decide to relocate the Ft Monmouth electronics communications labs down to Aberdeen Proving?

Yes, I'm pretty sure Fort Monmouth's roles were divided by the good folks at Base Closure and Realigment between Picatinny Arsenal and Aberdeen Proving Grounds.

SemperFidelis wrote:Yes, I'm pretty sure Fort Monmouth's roles were divided by the good folks at Base Closure and Realigment between Picatinny Arsenal and Aberdeen Proving Grounds.

Didn't the Signal School from Monmouth wind up at Ft. Gordon, in a consolidation move?

(1969 Alumnus, USASCS, MOS 31S30, Fort Monmouth.)

(Yeah, a little thread drift; required content- I remember trackage, unused, on base- near the East Gate, as I remember.)

Yea, it's a rail cannon. But I can guarantee you it will not move on a commercial railroad in this country.

T rail canon will be taken apart to be moved; the trucks will move separately from the crane itself. And the weight is no problem - you just break it up over many wheels. Have you never seen a heavy load move down the highway before?

A company like Diamond Heavy Haul specializes in moves like this, and will move the crane like it is nothing. http://www.diamondheavyhaul.com/
I worked with these guys all the time when I was in Cincinnati, and I was amazed what they could do.

CJPat wrote:Overall length and weight would probably prevent a road movement. It is 70 ft long and 230 tons. I found this on Flickr by Ron Hilton http://www.flickr.com/photos/hilton_photos/1308989119/ I have no idea how they would handle the wheel trucks issue. They are 2 trucks with 12 wheel each. Maybe it is feasible to barge out? There is also a piece of artillery the size of a Coastal Artillery gun, and several other pieces that are not going to fit on the road.

It will cost us taxpayers a lot of money to relocate Aberdeen. Didn't they decide to relocate the Ft Monmouth electronics communications labs down to Aberdeen Proving?

Yea, it's a rail cannon. But I can guarantee you it will not move on a commercial railroad in this country.

1. Never say Never. The military, if it so chooses, can cause bends to normal regulations although I agree they will look at other options seriously before they choose to have discussions with the FRA. Unless you wish to tell us that you are involved in the museum's business, you can not make definitive statements.

T rail canon will be taken apart to be moved

2. Remeber, this is a historic piece. There may be able to break it down at a couple of key points that may reduce overall weight and length(e.g. Tube from Lift Mechanism, Trucks from Frame, etc.) but they will not be able to alter it (read that as torch it) just to get into "manageable pieces". This is a 65+ year old HISTORIC piece, that only two exist in the world today. Every nut & bolt & gear is probably fused together by corrosion. If anything, they may have to re-inforce it for the move to keep it from shaking apart.

3. Finally, and someone can correct me if they know differently, I believe the unit was brought in by rail after WWII to APG for analysis and then later, display.

In the end, you may be right, that they can figure how to reduce the load and ship by truck, but any way you look at it, it will present quite a challenge.

I greatly appreciate your know it all attitude. It's really not needed, and it's very apparent you really don't know what you're talking about here. My experience of moving millions of pieces of military equipment all over the world gives me the knowledge to make some statements...

CJPat wrote: 1. Never say Never. The military, if it so chooses, can cause bends to normal regulations although I agree they will look at other options seriously before they choose to have discussions with the FRA. Unless you wish to tell us that you are involved in the museum's business, you can not make definitive statements.

It was built in pieces, and can be disassembled in pieces. That's mechanics 101. The fact that all every "nut & bolt & gear is probably fused by corrosion" is more of a reason for it to be taken apart to be moved. It's a lot easier to separate it into 3 large pieces than to replace 30+ journal boxes. Now that's simple math.

CJPat wrote: 2. Remeber, this is a historic piece. There may be able to break it down at a couple of key points that may reduce overall weight and length(e.g. Tube from Lift Mechanism, Trucks from Frame, etc.) but they will not be able to alter it (read that as torch it) just to get into "manageable pieces". This is a 65+ year old HISTORIC piece, that only two exist in the world today. Every nut & bolt & gear is probably fused together by corrosion. If anything, they may have to re-inforce it for the move to keep it from shaking apart.

And, somebody correct me if they know differently, but railroad technology and standards have changed over the past 70 years, and the rail cannon is no longer up to standard.

CJPat wrote: 3. Finally, and someone can correct me if they know differently, I believe the unit was brought in by rail after WWII to APG for analysis and then later, display.

Remember, nobody knows everything...

And of course you're "know it all" response simply warms us all over with your civility. So far, you have not offered anything in your opposition to what I discussed other than your omnipotence. And as I had already acknowledged, I am confident that all other alternatives will be thoroughly reviewed by the museum.

But your statement does not change what was presented. The unit was built bolt by bolt. That has less bearing on how they can break it down without incuring significant damage. The point of the museum is to preserve, not damage. Alternatives will be thoroughly reviewed.

Now if you wish to offer an "assessment" that people would enjoy reading, leave your own 'tude at the door.

Moderator's note: Gentlemen, This topic has strayed a tad from the original discussion of military railroads, so I've chosen to split this portion of the discussion into it's own topic.

As this topic has provoked some speculation and conjecture, I would remind the participants that while a healthy discourse is encouraged, flaming and name calling is not tolerated in this forum. If you're going to disagree that's fine, but please do so in a mature and respectful manner. Otherwise this topic will be locked.

Is the entire Aberdeen 'collection' (tanks, artillery, etc.) being moved to Ft. Lee? or just the rail mounts?

I believe the entire APG collection is to move to Fort Lee. Many pieces are, in fact, already there. When I last visited the post, the "new arrivals" were being stored by the rail gate.

While I didn't move millions of pieces of military equipment around the world, I did help move several thousand. As anyone who works in the military can tell you, they do about a thousand things a week that make you shake your head in confusion. While I wouldn't place money on a rail move happening, neither would I entirely rule one out.

Amtrak would be a HUGE obstacle to all of this. They are not at all easy to deal with when it comes to normal freight (like my sand). I can't imagine they would be easy to deal with when it came to moving large railway cannons. Yes, Amtrak is a government agency. However, that doesn't matter as much as people (especially those who haven't firsthand seen how little the government cooperates with itself) think it does. Someone pretty high up in NS put it rather clearly to me once when we discussed a Northeast Corridor routing for some railcars, "Amtrak only has two answers when it comes to frieght on the corridor, 'No' and 'Hell no'." Amtrak has no special place in its heart for the military. Even though what happened at Chase was due to human error, frieght is freight.

And, as someone who saw it firsthand and who deals with it from time to time, the military's upper echelon's are not exactly enamoured by railroad movements, either.