R&E and NYC crossing in Pittsford

Here is the topo:
NYC French Rd crossing is 432' elevation benchmark.

The elevation down near the R&E is 425' and the R&E is in a cut below 425'. The NYC is 7' higher plus the cut of 3-4' back then gives the trolley enough to get under the NYC. You'll notice the topo shows a gully where the work "(AUBURN" is.

That's 1931 and that gully between the NYC (north side) and French Road is filled in now and there are houses built on relatively flat land.

South of the NYC has also been filled in and industrial builds built.

That white house in the picture is probably the house on the topo map just left of the capital "H" on your map. Also, the gully was probably filled with the dirt removed from the higher ground on the right (which is now a flat area, with several storage garages for the country club. They probably dumped the dirt on the other side of the little creek there.

D Alex wrote:I still think you are way off; what you are seeing back in the trees behind the storage garages in the village of Pittsford is nothing more than a loop connection between the Auburn and the South Shore.

"the South Shore"? Please explain.

The country club (and their underpass) is West of the French Road crossing. The underpass in the above map is East of the French Road crossing, which puts it much closer to the Village of Pittsford. The flat roof in the OP picture is probably the pickle factory.

If you poke around the page a bit, the coordinates of this crossing are indeed listed at 43.096719,-77.519555.

This map also appears to show a connection westward to the NYC: http://rochesterandeastern.com/pittsfor ... d_map.html

Would that be it, between the two posts in the distance?

It seems I was wrong. I was told years ago by somebody (and 'old crank with a failing memory', it seems....) that the R&E crossed the Auburn road, the followed alongside French rd. until the edge of the village of Pittsford. I have a framed county-wide topographic map from about 1911 that is....well, unclear as to where the R&E went, and with roads, rail rights-of-way and topographic lines all coming together, I believed that narrative.

However, it seems that there are a couple of things about the R&ERR that I can say with some certainty now. Firstly, was that it followed Monroe Ave pretty much from downtown (save for the last decade or so, when it used the subway right-of-way) all the way until it veered off into the fields at roughly where the old Graphlex plan is today, just before the embankment that takes you up to the canal bridge. From there, it went under the Auburn road, along it's own right-of-way, which brings up into the map of Pittsford village posted just above.

Today, I went out on a quest to find it. The first photo shows the route from just next to the end of the old pickle factory. The second shows the northern side of the embankment on the Auburn road. The third shows the view southward, with the brand-new hiking trails that were put in just this summer, and the 4th photo, well, there it is; the same view as the original picture!

Notice the fence gate in the distance above; it's the same one you see in the distance below.


Tis is looking sout-eastward, over where the track used to go straight towards Monroe,

And, this is a picture from almost exactly the same location (a few feet closer, since that location is now in the middle of a swamp.

What they did with the old R&E track was this: they turned it into a drainage culvert. There is a large corrugated pipe under all that fill where the bridge used to be, and it looks like whatever ballast there once was has been bulldozed of backhoed, making the entire area between this underpass and the old Graphlex plant pretty much a wetlands. It seems that all the drains on all the parking lots around the DelMonte spa, under the WEST shore overpass (sorry, I always consider that the only shore near it is the SOUTH shore of Lake Ontario...), and the pickle factory all run straight into this area.

This also answers another mystery, namely, why did the NYC allow a direct competitor underground access to cross their property? Probably, there was already a culvert there, and the R&E offered to revamp the area, then maintain it. Probably saved the NYC a ton of $$.

Does anyone know which railroad came first? I'm under the impression the R&E had been around for quite some time. Does it predate the West Shore? If not, does the crossing predate the NYC takeover of WS?

D Alex wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:13 pmThis also answers another mystery, namely, why did the NYC allow a direct competitor underground access to cross their property? Probably, there was already a culvert there, and the R&E offered to revamp the area, then maintain it. Probably saved the NYC a ton of $$.

Again, read NYS RR law regarding RR crossings. You'll find some answers there, along with my comments posted here 11/30.

RailKevin wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:59 pm Does anyone know which railroad came first? I'm under the impression the R&E had been around for quite some time. Does it predate the West Shore? If not, does the crossing predate the NYC takeover of WS?

Auburn Road opened from Rochester to Canandaigua on 19 September 1840 and was successively merged into the NYC in 1853. R&ERRy operated from 1903-1930. NYWS&B opened to Buffalo by the beginning of 1884. NYC bought the NYWS&B in November 1885. The trolleys here came last and went first.

ctclark1 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 6:30 pmAnd finally, just to expand a little more on the eastern "exit" of Pittsford, clues would suggest that the R&E ran to the SOUTH of the powerhouse. After looking a bit more at Google Earth after making this image, I would almost guess it turns south in the area between the powerhouse and the shed at the extreme right of the image, but still stayed just to the north of said shed.

You are correct on that - I found a photo via google that shows it. The current building complex is the depot location on the south side and the northeastern portion is the powerhouse. The two tracks were in front of (south side) the depot, as you drew it, where the driveway is in front of the current building. Was a decent looking brick facility. http://www.rochesterandeastern.com/pitt ... views.html I doubt the village map's showing of the R&E as straightline between the underpass and Grove Street - the OP pic would have to have the slight curve to the north to keep the tracks out of the living room of the white house. We have the pic to prove it and the map doesn't show the gauntlet either, but it does mysteriously show a connection to the NYC.

D Alex:

None of your pictures are visible. I don't know if the problem is on your end or with Railroad.Net. Other photos in this thread show properly.

D Alex wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:13 pm It seems I was wrong. I was told years ago by somebody (and 'old crank with a failing memory', it seems....) that the R&E crossed the Auburn road, the followed alongside French rd. until the edge of the village of Pittsford. I have a framed county-wide topographic map from about 1911 that is....well, unclear as to where the R&E went, and with roads, rail rights-of-way and topographic lines all coming together, I believed that narrative.

However, it seems that there are a couple of things about the R&ERR that I can say with some certainty now. Firstly, was that it followed Monroe Ave pretty much from downtown (save for the last decade or so, when it used the subway right-of-way) all the way until it veered off into the fields at roughly where the old Graphlex plan is today, just before the embankment that takes you up to the canal bridge. From there, it went under the Auburn road, along it's own right-of-way, which brings up into the map of Pittsford village posted just above.

Today, I went out on a quest to find it. The first photo shows the route from just next to the end of the old pickle factory. The second shows the northern side of the embankment on the Auburn road. The third shows the view southward, with the brand-new hiking trails that were put in just this summer, and the 4th photo, well, there it is; the same view as the original picture!

Notice the fence gate in the distance above; it's the same one you see in the distance below.


Tis is looking sout-eastward, over where the track used to go straight towards Monroe,

And, this is a picture from almost exactly the same location (a few feet closer, since that location is now in the middle of a swamp.

What they did with the old R&E track was this: they turned it into a drainage culvert. There is a large corrugated pipe under all that fill where the bridge used to be, and it looks like whatever ballast there once was has been bulldozed of backhoed, making the entire area between this underpass and the old Graphlex plant pretty much a wetlands. It seems that all the drains on all the parking lots around the DelMonte spa, under the WEST shore overpass (sorry, I always consider that the only shore near it is the SOUTH shore of Lake Ontario...), and the pickle factory all run straight into this area.

This also answers another mystery, namely, why did the NYC allow a direct competitor underground access to cross their property? Probably, there was already a culvert there, and the R&E offered to revamp the area, then maintain it. Probably saved the NYC a ton of $$.

Here are the 4 photos:

Thank you. Could you be more specific about the locations of these photos, I don't know where the old pickle factory is, and GPS coordinates or placing the photos on a map would be helpful.

https://goo.gl/maps/in3rfKEus8GC1mnS7
The Pickle Factory that everyone is referring to is shown here. As discussed, the original building was the south end of the current structure, they expanded north multiple times. The R&E right of way has been determined to be in the vicinity of the parking lot access to the north of the building.

The location of the R&E underpass of the Auburn Road the underpass, is shown with the purple circle in this post.

Your Google map isn't coming through. The "Old Pickle Factory" is that rambling dark brown structure the other side of the parking lot from the storage garages. If you walk on the trail behind the storage garages, just after the garage, the trail jogs a bit to the left, and then there is a side trail that joins on the left; this is a new trail, made only in the last year. The area where it goes had been a swampy tangle of undergrowth for as long as I can remember, yet it is the same place where the original photo from 100 years ago shows as a flat, barren area. I never even realized that I was on an embankment, much less where a bridge used to stand.

As to the question of "which came first"; The Rochester and Auburn Railroad was THE first rail link to Rochester, and the only link to the east for probably a decade. The Auburn road is so old, the first locomotives were wood-burning! Abraham Lincoln, on his only visit to Rochester, took the Auburn road on his trip back east in 1860. Then came the "West Shore" ( BTW, what western shore is it referring too? I have no idea..). The R&ERR crossed UNDER that at the East Ave overpass, in that little area on the end, next to the Pittsford Dairy, then went alongside the dairy, with that building being the station (I think). There is a small remnant of the R&ERR right-of-way that crosses Marsh Road, then across the intersection there is still a small bridge that crosses a little creek that I assume is left over from the R&E. From that point, not much still exists, save an embankment for a bridge across the canal around the Canal House in Bushnell's basin, and the footings to the bridge over the LVRR in Fishers.

Thanks, @ctclark1, that helps!

D Alex wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:00 amThe Auburn road is so old, the first locomotives were wood-burning!

The vast majority of all locomotives were wood burners in this country well into the 1870s when the availability of coal increased, along with the demand for more powerful locomotives. The first generation of locos on the Auburn road were long dead and buried and replaced by at least another full generation (or two, depending on how you look at locomotive development) of wood burners by the time they went to coal.

D Alex wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:00 am... the "West Shore" ( BTW, what western shore is it referring too? I have no idea..).

The New York, West Shore and Buffalo RR was aptly named as it originated in the New York City area (Weehawken), ran up the WEST SHORE of the Hudson River 130+ miles to the Albany area, then west to Buffalo.

D Alex wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:00 amnext to the Pittsford Dairy, then went alongside the dairy, with that building being the station (I think).

You could always read my post of 12/14 and click on the link to the R&E page. There's a nice picture of that very depot with the substation behind it, along with an old map, and some more pictures, and...

Thanks for posting the photos so we could see them. That definitively answers nydepot's question. Abutments remain, bridge is gone.