"Pan Am" TV series on ABC - Pan Am Railways Trademark Rights

Well, when you think about it, why would the show be related to the railroad? Just because Pan Am Railways and Pan Am Brands are both owned by Pan Am Systems doesn't mean the railroad has (or wants) any involvement. And I'm sure the folks at Billerica don't want their phones ringing off the hook with questions about a TV show. The railroad is a very public entity, despite the company's best efforts to keep it private -- it makes sense that they'd want to basically say "We're not involved, so don't ask."

I know that some people don't trust Wikipedia, but the article for Pan Am Systems explains the corporate structure in a fairly understandable way, and it seems to be well sourced: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Systems

Long story short: Pan Am Systems (the renamed Guilford Transportation Industries) owns Pan Am Railways (the renamed Guilford Rail System). Pan Am Systems also owns Pan Am Brands, which handles licensing of the brand to other companies -- such as Sony, and (so I've heard) a freight airline based in Texas.

Brief article in the Boston Herald about the show (and the railroad also gets a mention):

Boston Herald wrote:If the ABC network decided to set its new drama “Pan Am” in 2011, viewers would be tuning in to the intriguing nuances of cargo transport at the Iron Horse rail yard in North Billerica. The iconic blue globe logo now decorates boxcars for Pan Am Railways, formerly Guilford Transportation, the parent company of the old Boston and Maine line.

Read more at: http://bostonherald.com/business/genera ... rmat=email

Just a question.
Why is this thread on a railroad board, should it not be on an avation board, other than the name "Pan Am" it has nothing to do with the railroad now or in the past other than the fact they own the name?

The program is about Pam Am airlines not railroad and is way before it came to be part of the Guilford Rail System.

Peter

Mostly because the moderator says its ok. :D

Seriously, Pan Am Systems owns the rights to the Pan Am Airways name and logo, and has licensed it for the show, so discussing it here is essentially like talking about Perma Treat. Both are sections of Pan Am Systems, but neither are part of the rail division...all parts of PAS affect the railroad. Think back to when they were funneling money from the railroad to keep their incarnation of Pan Am Airways in the air, Pan Am Air wasn't part of the railroad but sure affected things. Its all related and adds some variety to the reading here on the forum.

While I appreciate the concern, we've had a tradition of discussing anything related to Pan Am Systems (and before that, Guilford Transportation Industries) on this forum. We've discussed a number of topics not specifically related to Pan Am's rail division, such as their real estate developments (e.g., NorthPoint), their air division (Boston-Maine Airways), and their newest venture, Pan Am Brands.

Due to the fact that this series would not have been possible without the cooperation of Pan Am Systems -- as well as the fact that they have promoted the series in their company newsletter -- I feel that the series is a relevant topic of discussion here.

I do understand your concern. If, for instance, someone started a thread about Pan American World Airways historical operations in the 1960s, I would consider that off-topic and would direct the poster to one of the many excellent aviation forums on the web because that topic has no relation whatsoever to Guilford Transportation Industries / Pan Am Systems. On the other hand, if they wanted to talk about Pan Am Clipper Connection operations in the early 2000s, I would allow it.

I agree that this thread has nothing to do with Pan Am in it's current form: A Freight Railroad. Much ado is being given to something that is really no more than a minor side note . They don't fly planes, they don't have stewardesses, they don't have pilots, they have Engineers, Conductors, Trainmen, Clerks, Agents, Carmen, Trackmen, Signalmen, B&B, Welders, Machinists, Pipe Fitters, Trainmasters, Road Foremen, Yardmasters. If CBS or NBC created a show about them, that was not some puff-piece about steam engines or something, then it would be relavent.

mick wrote:I agree that this thread has nothing to do with Pan Am in it's current form: A Freight Railroad.

Pan Am is more than just a freight railroad. The railroad undoubtedly makes up the majority of their business, but it's not all they do. See my post above.

Pan Am had the power to prevent this show from being made. They could have said "no" and that would have been the end of it. Instead they chose to be involved. That's a fact, like it or not, and they devoted several pages of their freight railroad's newsletter to the show.

Bottom line, folks: if you don't like the show, if you don't watch the show, or if you don't want to discuss the show, you don't have to read this thread. Nobody's forcing you to read this thread or any other thread.

For those of you who do want to discuss the show, please do. I've made my decision that it's a relevant topic, and if anyone disagrees, they're welcome, as always, to take it up with Jeff Smith. He can (and will) overrule me if I'm wrong.

As Mr. Maine Central has noted at an earlier posting in response to my inquiry, (PanAm) Systems owns, as separate subsidiaries, both Brands and Railroad. Therefore the connection is there but quite tangential. Even if Brands was non-operating entity of Railroad (not likely; " wannave" someone filling orders for flight bags "in the Union"?), the income would be what we accountants call "immaterial".

But nevertheless, if the licensing of the "marks" to the TV production company, Jack Orman Productions, includes remuneration determined by ratings or any other performance measurement, then the revenue stream from the licensure does bear upon the success of the show. On the strength of that, it would appear fair game for the discussion to move forth.

If think Mr. Norman makes a good point that could also go both ways.

Ancillary ventures such as this one have in the past proven to be a serious fiscal issue for the railroad (see: Pan Am/B&M Airways). The licensing arrangement effectively insulated the company against losses this time around. Perhaps an example of a "lesson learned". I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if the agreement also had some kind of "kicker" that provided for additional revenues to PAS if the show's profits exceeded a certain threshold.

Not a bad example of a "win-win".

As described the above is most relevant because of its potential negative or positive effects on the company, which will likely have trickle down effects on railroad freight operations. At least for now the additional licensing revenues are probably a substantial net positive for the company for a minimal expenditure on administration and legal counsel.

Thanks all for the feedback, I can now see how this thread and the airline are intertwined as far as the reason for the thread. I know the history of the rail road but I thought it strange having a airline on a railroad thread but thats a personal opinion.

Peter

I think most of us probably share that sentiment in some form or another. As mentioned history has taught us that these "other" things tend to greatly affect the railroad.

The closest comparison from the legacy era would likely be the Penn Central Holding Company (formerly the "Pennsylvania Company") which was a PRR subsidiary that managed certain non-railroad assets, companies and investments.

Speaking of Penn Central, what a contrast in styles between Pan Am Airways and Penn Central Railroad ! Can you imagine if the reverse incarnation had taken place and Pan Am had become an airline company ? Your trip would consist of a miserable four hours Boston to New York, three hours of which would be sitting on the tarmac fixing one malfunction after another. You'd refuse to sit in your assigned seat, which would have some unknown sticky substance on it, all the while being sworn at by surly stewardesses, and your bags would surely get lost, not due to thievery but by the fact that the cargo hatch cover would inevitably open up, dumping all of it's cargo in the ocean. hahaha!!!!

So glad to hear this is flaming-out.
When you bust your butt for years for them while they willfully kept diverting railroad revenue to keep the airline running, while at the same time crying poor, you will understand my lack of sympathy in losing their revenue stream from the licensing fees the show generated.

...so much, seemingly, for that tributary to the PAR revenue stream...