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  • "Natural"/obvious mergers.

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This forum is for discussion of "Fallen Flag" roads not otherwise provided with a specific forum. Fallen Flags are roads that no longer operate, went bankrupt, or were acquired or merged out of existence.

Moderator: Nicolai3985

 #385588  by USRailFan
 
The Burlington Northern merger could, I guess, be called a "natural" merger - the four railroads (NP, GN, SP&S, CB&Q) had a common heritage, interchanged with each other, had been owned by the same people, and had (to some degree at least) a common management. So it could be said that it'd be natural for them to be merged into one.

Has there been other "natural" mergers like these? B&O + C&O into Chessie System, possibly? Or was Burlington Northern a one-off?
 #385800  by henry6
 
Define "natural". End to end could possibley be "natural" as could parallel
duplication. But also common boards of directors or managment, similar markets or commodities carriers and lines perpendicular to each other which tie together markets in several directions.

Thus, DRGW-WP was a "natural" end to end merger while being enveloped by UP (with SP) was parallel. The Erie Lackawanna was both.
CN enveloped the IC to reach the Gulf ports perpendicular to its general east west bearings. B&M-MC had a little of both end to end with some of the same managment and money interests which made the marriage easy. And of course B&O-RDG-CNJ should have happened but never did!

But today I don't think "natural" is as easily defined by geography either end to end or side by side but more in the stock portfolio's and market interests of the companies.
 #385805  by USRailFan
 
[quote="henry6"]Thus, DRGW-WP was a "natural" end to end merger[quote]

Wasn't Western Pacific originally owned by Rio Grande? I guess that would've made an imagined merger between those two a "natural" merger too. That was the definition I tried to put forth in my initial post - where railroad companies shared a common heritage in that they'd been owned - or even funded - by the same person(s), and had close co-operation when it came to interchanging freight, running passenger trains, and possibly having, fully or partly, a common management. AFAIK all of this was the case with the four initial BN merger partners (and would also be the case with DRGW+WP, I guess)?

 #385931  by umtrr-author
 
I highly recommend the books "Merging Lines" and "Main Lines" for a very well thought out scholarly discussion of this topic. They are pricey but should be available at larger libraries.
 #406557  by 2nd trick op
 
Western Pacific was one of the last tanscontinentals completed; it wasn't owned by Rio Grande, but shared a common purpose, conceived after George Gould had acquired Wabash, Missouri Pacific and Rio Grande in an attempt to develop a true coast-to-coast system around 1910. WP also partnered with Great Northern in developing the "Inside Gateway" via Bieber, Calif, in 1930.

Transcontinental rail freight traffic continued to grow in the years following World War II and the Rio Grande had emerged from bankruptcy in the late 1940s and used its strong position within Colorado and Utah, plus several friendly connections, to develop into a financially healthy property. A couple of court decisions also maintained an SP/D&RGW connection at Ogden and discouraged EsPee from diverting everything to UP and short-hauling the Rio Grande.

But around 1962, SP made a play to acquire WP, a move that was opposed by just about everybody else, particularly Santa Fe. EsPee backed down, and D&RGW continued to prosper through the 1970's, eventually attracting the interest of Denver oil baron Philip Anschutz. This set off a wave of manuverings which eventually allowed Anschutz to leverage his way to contol of much-larger EsPee, which had fallen upon lean times financially. Further maneuvers, too complicated to explain here, eventually gave Union Pacific control of WP, and in the wake of an aborted SP/AT&SF meger, the wiser course of splitting SP to allow continued competition directly eastward from the Bay Area was not followed.
Last edited by 2nd trick op on Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
 #406730  by walt
 
2nd trick op wrote:Western Pacific was one of the last tanscontinentals completed; it wasn't owned by Rio Grande, but shared a common purpose, conceived after George Gould had acquired Wabash, Missouri Pacific and Rio Grande in an attempt to develop a true coast-to-coast system around 1910.
Actually, the attempt by George Gould to put together a transcontinental railroad occured somewhat earlier than 1910. Gould formed the Western Pacific in 1903, one year after he created the still operating ( as SEPTA Route 100) Philadephia & Western Railroad. The P&W never got any further west than Strafford, which is 10 miles from the P&W's Upper Darby, Pa terminus. P&W ultimately built an extension to Norristown to connect with the Lehigh Valley Transit Company's Allentown- Philadelphia Liberty Bell Route. This occurred in 1912, long after the Gould empire had collapsed ( which happened in 1908- Gould had sold the P&W in 1906- before it officially opened for business- and the rest of his railroad empire was in bankruptcy by 1908). Rail service to Strafford was abandoned by the Red Arrow Lines, P&W's last private owners, in 1956 leaving only the still running 69th Street--- Norristown Line.

 #409812  by JimBoylan
 
The various "Alphabet Route" Lines would be an end to end merger.
NYNH&H, L&HR, RDG, WM, P&WV, W&LE, NYC&StL (NKP)

 #409829  by scharnhorst
 
How about the failed buy out of Conrail by the Santa Fe in 1985? or the possable what if if Conrail had been pulled apart between Santa Fe and Norfolk Southern in the late 80's?

 #412259  by joshuahouse
 
Just before EL being included into Conrail there was at least some thought of a merger/buyout by ATSF. This would have made for a true transcon of course and given ATSF that great high wide line across NY State.
 #731175  by jebradley
 
If I'm not mistaken, B&M and MEC were never merged, and remained separate even into the Guilford era. The two roads entered into a 'management agreement' by which MEC was managed by B&M people but there was no legal (i.e., stock) ownership as such. I don't know if Guilford (excuse me, "Pan Am" has since merged them, but I believe Guilford has acted as a holding company.

James E. Bradley
Lehigh Valley Chapter N.R.H.S.
 #755272  by Lehighton_Man
 
One natural merger that should've happened IMHO, is the NKP/LV merger in the 1950s. In effect, it would've had one hell of an effect on the North East Railroads. NKP/LV running together would've been direct competition to the NYC, with a New York - Chicago link. Ironically, if one does look at some of the Records, It does show that even NYC wanted the Valley, but didn't have the chance before the dreaded Pennsylvania Rail Road meddled in our affairs... (mind you, I do realise that it was acted upon because the Valley was not very financially successful at the time, turning very marginal profits, if any, and the PRR thought it would be it's savior.) I truthfully think that if the PRR hadn't meddled in the Valley's Affairs, and the NKP/LV happened, That it would have 3 options:
1. NKP/LV would exist into the 21st century as a Regional Class 2, rather than 1.
2. Conrail might've made a move to acquire the line, but this seems too impractical, since they already had the EL, and NYC routes,
3. N&W would've still had its way, and obtained the roads like it did, Wabash, NKP & Wabash.

Kind of wishful thinking if you see it similarly to the way I think. :)
Last edited by Lehighton_Man on Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
 #755836  by jlaroccoii
 
Not to nitpick, but the MONON was merged into the L&N. Which in turn became part of CSX.
If I misundrstood, please forgive me.
 #756187  by Lehighton_Man
 
My bad. I was trying to think of the 3 that N&W "acquried"... NKP was one, WLE was two, and I can't remember the third.
 #757110  by jlaroccoii
 
Don't feel bad. Before the internet, when I was a teen, I thought the MONON was part of NS as well. Kind of wish it was.