"Delaware, Susquehanna & Schuylkill" 1897

Here's the passenger mileage for this company when it was trying to compete with the LV in Carbon Co PA. Running W to E. It did not succeed and went to the LV. Comments in brackets from a very poor schematic map.

Deringer 0 [further 2m W to jct with PRR at Gowen], Gum Run 1 [crossover & jct with PRR], Tomhicken 3.1, Long Run Jct 8.7 [trailing spur from LV] , Cranberry 9.5, Harwood 11.1 [S of LV Harwood Mines], Oneida Jct -connection with LV & branch- 13.1, Hazleton Jct 14 [was this Gamma Jct LV?], Roan 14.3 [line shown Roan to Silver Brook Jct -was this built?], Beaver Meadow Road 16.1 [in Dreck Creek valley], Stockton Jct [NW of Ashmore LV with connection to there] 20, Hazle Brook 21.1, Eckley Jct [S of village with spur 0.5m] 24, Jeddo 27, Drifton -no connection 28 [W of LV?]

Branch: Sheppton 0, Oneida 2, Humboldt Rd 6.3, Harwood Road 7.3, Oneida Jct 9.4.

Apart from the branch, I don't know how much of this the LV bothered to keep.

There's a nice map of it at http://www.lvrr.com/, in the Maps section. It was made up in 1914, but represents the DS&S as of November 1905, when the LV bought it. Aside from the branch, which was lifted between 1955 and c. 1976, Taber says only that Oneida Jct. to Lumber Yard (Stockton) and near Jeddo to Drifton were removed prior to 1968, Stockton Jct. to near Jeddo and Oneida Jct. to Gowen at an unknown date. The last two (except for the spur to Eckley, later reached by a new spur off the LV) were pretty substantially redundant with the LV, so I'd guess they went rather early.

The line from Long Run Jct. to Tomhicken is clear on both the 1955 and modern topos as a dirt road; the modern topo also shows the abutments to the tightly curved bridge at Tomhicken Jct. Strip mining has pretty well destroyed the grade from Long Run Jct. to Oneida Jct. Beyond the duckunder east of Oneida Jct., it looks like a spur has been relaid on part of the old grade, and Roan Yard and Beaver Meadows Jct. pretty well built over. East of there, the grade appears as a dirt road again, easily followed to Ashmore. North of there, it's lost for a bit in coal stripping, but can be picked up again a little south of (old) Eckley Jct. and followed on the topo into Drifton, where part is still shown as a mine spur.

BTW, the interchange with the PRR at Gum Run Jct. is still listed in the 1923 CT1000 (but not in 1945); there doesn't appear to have been an interchange at Gowen.

Thanks. This map's much better.

I notice that the line to Gowen from Deringer was 4'g, explaining why there wasn't a junction with the PRR at the former.

Also, what I thought was a DSS line from Rowan to Silverbrook Jct was a "Reading" wannabe which only built a short way south of Roan. (Any info on this?)

The DSS was incorporated in 1890. It was promoted by an outfit called "Coxe Brothers Company" which ran coal mines at Drifton, Jeddo, Eckley and Beaver Meadow. CBC started at Drifton in 1883 and survived at Beaver Meadow until at least 1934. Railroad operating headquarters were at Drifton.

LV started operating it in 1905 under an agreement, and leased it in 1920. Merger in 1949.

It owned 50m max, and claimed 134m trackage in 1890. There was one passenger train from Deringer to Drifton each way on weekdays in 1897, but Oneida Jct was not on the main line. There were three trains each way on the branch, one to/from Drifton and the other two to/from Roan, which interchanged with the LV at Oneida Jct just off the main line.

It certainly looks like it says "4' gauge," but that doesn't make much sense to me — it should've appeared in Hilton's "American Narrow Gauge Railroads," in which case I'd remember it, and the line from Eckley Jct. to Jeddo is also so marked, which seems unlikely. ICC valuation for the LV might settle the issue.

The "Reading" line appears to read "Philadelphia & Reading Coal & Iron Company," so it probably just means that the Coal & Iron Co. built the branch to their own breaker and let the DS&S operate it, by no means an uncommon practice.

The Coxe Bros private mine spurs were apparently 4'g at Drifton, Jeddo and Eckley before they incorporated the DSS; the greater puzzle is why they bothered with such a gauge in the first place.

This seems to tie in with the CNJ branch to Woodside and Highlands via Drifton from Drifton Jct from their main line, which seems to be the first outside link for these towns (there was no connection with the LV initially).

I haven't figured out this properly yet!

Also, the spur to Oneida#3 mine at the end of the Shepperton branch is 4'g. Were they using up otherwise redundant locos? But the trans-shipment to s.g. must have been a pain.

"Hilton" doesn't bother much with exclusively coal or lumber lines without common-carrier status. There was a serious number of these in PA!

A mighty curiosity. 42" gauge was more usual in the coal fields. Unfortunately, Taber is void of information. The Coxe collection at the Historical Society of Pennsylvania might explain why. Unfortunately, my list of "things to be researched when I return to Philadelphia" is already quite large.

Also, what I thought was a DSS line from Rowan to Silverbrook Jct was a "Reading" wannabe which only built a short way south of Roan. (Any info on this?)

On the DSS map on the lvrr site given,
I can't quite make it out, but I think this line south of Roan(?) Jct.
MIGHT read "Phila. & Reading THN"

I suspect THN since there is an "Tamaqua Hazleton & Northern" which is listed on google search as a predecessor of the Reading, and I have
seen it mentioned on a Yahoo Reading and Northern group as
as going from the Silverbrook area (coming off the Reading Catawissa
Line at Hazleton Junction) -- see a post by Steve G in the middle of the page at
http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?bo ... 1123727901
He says it roughly parallels the LV going up to Hazleton (I guess to
Roan Jct!!) on the DSS.
I presume it was built since he says you can stil make out the ROW
in the winter!!! But I have never seen any map (Reading map or
topo map or otherwise with it on it, or showing as an abandoned ROW etc.

Does anyone else know anything???

THanks, JS

PS. I'm not sure where on the DSS map it says "Coal & Iron
Company" . Is it somewhere else besides Roan Junction, or
are we reading different things into the letters that are hard to
make out?

4' gauge may have been a Welsh coal mine gauge. One story by a stretch has it that the coal miners in this area came from Wales. A more recent tourist RR in N.E. Pa. was 4' gauge because it started with some used local coal mine equipment. Was it called the Carrollton or Carroll Park RR?

Well, I never heard of them before, but if you lived in Carbon County
I guess you knew all about the Coxe family. THis article says they just about invented the anthracite business.
The formation of the DSS is mentioned on page 8 and the sale on
page 15. http://www2.hsp.org/collections/coxe/pd ... 20Note.pdf

and some more background at http://www2.hsp.org/collections/coxe/company.html

JS

Now that I look, "Philadelphia & Reading, TH&N RR" looks like a much more plausible reading than "Philadelphia & Reading Coal & Iron Co.". I've also had trouble tracking that down on maps; the best I could do was old PennDOT highway maps of Carbon and Schuylkill counties from 1916, http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Internet/Bur ... CountyMaps. It looks like it more or less paralleled the LV on the south and east side up from Lofty through McAdoo to Roan Jct. Per Taber, the TH&N was built in 1891, cut back from Roan Jct. to McAdoo in 1936 after 25 (!) years of disuse, and the remainder abandoned in 1945. Incidentally, now that I look closer on the map, on the two 4' gauge lines on the west side, I can see a little arrow and line denoting the end of 4' gauge. The scan isn't quite good enough for me to do so on the east side, although it looks like the line from Eckley Jct. to Eckley may also be labeled "4' gauge", so perhaps the junction represents the break in gauge.

Choess, thanks for the county map link.
Seems like the TH&N was really built from Hazleton Jct
on the Reading (near Lofty) to Roan after all. A new one for me.
I found another version of the same map, with the lettering highlighted,
and they have TH&N too:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/lv_dss1914.jpg

I always wondered why they called it Hazleton Jct on the Reading
Catawissa line. I think the southern end of the THN was used
by the CNJ (originall L&S) to reach their Tresckow RR, which went east aroudn McAdoo and then back west to cross the LV to reach a coalfield, although it doesnt look like it on the county map. Maybe they shared only on the first part of the line which first went west of the Catawissa line
and up before it crossed over it going east at Lofty. That part you can't see on the county map, although it is described on the railfan.net forum I mentioned earlier.

JS

I think the CNJ (Tresckow RR) and the TH&N were entirely separate. The county map is actually pretty close to what I think the correct track configuration was, except that they've put the TH&N junction in the wrong place. I noticed a map in the back of Taber's "Railroads of Pennsylvania" that shows the Lofty area in some detail. It looks like the Tresckow RR took off east then north from pretty close to the east portal of the tunnel there, running up to Old Silver Brook where one line joined the LV branch to the mines at New Silver Brook and one crossed the LV branch and ran up to Audenreid. The TH&N, however, left the Catawissa line at Hazleton Jct., south and east of Lofty, climbing up the mountainside and crossing over the tunnel. This is the grade you can still see marked on modern topo maps between the 1988 connection and the Catawissa.

(Why is it that whenever I get into these discussions, I always wind up with five browser windows and three books open, scribbling on a sketch pad and muttering imprecations?)

Choess, look at the 1946 Schuylkill County map. It has the "modern"
alignment of the THN now, looping west from the Catawissa before crossing over the tunnel. And it now has the CNJ-Tresckow connecting
to this alignment. (I guess it allowed them to get the coal going south
without having to reverse at the connection to Catawissa). So
maybe this new alignment, going over the tunnel, just was not there yet in
1916. JS
I also posted a query on the Reading forum.

Yeah, I see. The Tresckow RR (CNJ) was built in 1871, before the TH&N, so that must have been a later realignment. Tying it in at Hazleton Jct. instead of Lofty may also have eased the grade a bit. The other interesting thing on that map is that part of the LV's Silver Brook Branch has been removed; the east end is now marked as abandoned, tying into the abandoned TH&N; and the middle section is not shown. I suppose after the removal, the LV must have had trackage rights from Quakake up through Hazleton Jct. to reach Silver Brook.