Questions, re: photography on PATH

For those who have successfully taken railfan photographs on the PATH system - what are your tips? Given the authority's stance on photography, I'm thinking that limiting your time at any one place and not trying to be too conspicuous might work. I'd like to get some shots of the older cars on my next NYC trip and I'd be interesting in reading about what others have experienced.

Thanks in advance.

Jim

I prefer to shoot from the last car, platforms I would stay off at all costs, the PA is nuts. A few quick shots and that should be it, the shoot and scoot method works best.

How would I go about getting a permit? I would certainly like to take pix of Path, especially at Harrison station, along with Amtrak and Transit trains.

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:How would I go about getting a permit? I would certainly like to take pix of Path, especially at Harrison station, along with Amtrak and Transit trains.

You probably wouldn't get hassled on the Harrison platform given there are no PA cops there or the Conductor doesn't see you. The permits I believe pertain more towards professional photographers that want to use the PA/PATH in their images. That permit entials a PATH employee going around with you as you take photos to protect their interests.

My recommendation would be to either be discrete about it and not do it blatantly in front of the Conductor and/or Engineer. No flash...that's pretty obvious.
Or you could always either sit in one of the rear 5 cars, or the last car of the train. They Conductor switches between the first and second cars depending on which side of doors they have to open.

Thank you, but I WOULDN'T really take any chances about shutterbugging from the PATH platform at Harrison or on their trains, especially if they are owned by the Port Authority of NY and NJ.

Well, that's your choice then.

Shoot and scoot, it works well.

At Harrison, I would definately be distracted by the big parade of NJT and Amtraks in addition to Path.

OportRailfan wrote:

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:My recommendation would be to either be discrete about it and not do it blatantly in front of the Conductor and/or Engineer. No flash...that's pretty obvious.
Or you could always either sit in one of the rear 5 cars, or the last car of the train. They Conductor switches between the first and second cars depending on which side of doors they have to open.

On a couple occasions when I've had permission to shoot still pictures in the PATH system I've had no problems. And this was with a large camera with a larger lens and a powerful flash (no, I wasn't flashing trains, but down empty tunnels and so forth). One time when I was shooting out the front door, the engineer asked me if I had permission and I confidently said "yes" (since I did, indeed, have permission). That was that, other than me asking (and him agreeing) to do his run with high beams on.

FYI...

http://www.panynj.gov/CommutingTravel/p ... tions.html

IX. Photography and similar activity.
A. The taking or making of photographs of any portion of the PATH system is prohibited except as provided herein.

B. The taking or making of films, video recordings, and drawings or other visual depictions are subject to the same prohibitions, restrictions and procedures as are applicable to photography.

C. Photography which involves any of the following must comply with the requirements of the Extended Photography Policy and Procedures, in addition to these Rules:
1. Exclusive use of any area or any railcar or part of a railcar.
2. Exclusion of members of the public, PATH or Port Authority personnel, or PATH or Port Authority contractors from any area or any railcar or part of a railcar.
3. Use of equipment other than handheld equipment with self-contained power sources.

D.
1. No person may take a photograph of any portion of the PATH system unless he or she is accompanied by a representative of PATH.
2. No photograph shall be taken of any specific location, device or structure if such representative advises that such photography is prohibited because it will create an image which could be used to aid in the planning of an attempt to disable, destroy, avoid or circumvent any operational, safety, security, evacuation or emergency response device, structure or procedure, or which could be used in the planning of an attempt to commit an act of violence or intentionally cause disruption of rail service or public panic within the PATH system or a part thereof. If possible, a suggestion for alternative photography in PATH which would not have such an effect shall be made by the PATH representative.
3. A photographer and all members of his or her party shall follow the directions of such representative made for the purpose of preventing unreasonable interference with PATH operations, maintenance and construction, and to preserve the health and safety of the photographer or others.
4. A photographer may protest any direction made pursuant to paragraph (2) or (3) in the same manner as an appeal from the denial of a permit as set forth herein.

E. No person may take any photograph within PATH unless he or she has been issued a permit therefore by PATH as set forth herein.
1. A permit application shall be submitted in writing no later than thirty-six (36) hours preceding the commencement of the activities for which the permit is sought, and no earlier than seven (7) days preceding the commencement of the activities for which the permit is sought.
2. Permit application shall be submitted in person to the PATH Permit Administrator, or the designee thereof, during the hours of 9:00 AM to 10:30 AM and 1:30 PM to 3:30 PM, Monday through Friday, excluding holidays.
3. The permit application shall set forth the type, time, location and duration of activities to be conducted, and the name, address and telephone number of the person making the request (in the case of a group, it shall be sufficient to supply the name, address, and telephone number of the person who can be contacted if problems arise concerning the granting of the request). If a person making the application indicates an affiliation with an organization or group, the name and address of a local representative of the organization or group to act as a liaison will be requested; however, refusal to provide such information shall not be grounds for denial of a permit.
4. Permits will be granted on a first-come, first serve basis depending on the availability of escorts. An application will be denied in whole or in part only if: (a) the presence of visitors in a requested location would unreasonably interfere with PATH operations, maintenance and construction; (b) if the conduct cannot be performed without creating an image which could be used to aid in the planning of an attempt to disable, destroy, avoid or circumvent any operational, safety, security, evacuation or emergency response device, structure or procedure, or which could be used in the planning of an attempt to commit an act of violence or intentionally cause disruption of rail service or public panic within the PATH system or a part thereof; (c) if the location requested may not be visited safely by persons other than PATH or other operation, construction or maintenance personnel; (d) the application is incomplete; or, (e) the application discloses that the activities to be performed thereunder will violate these Rules.
5. A permit will be issued, or the application denied, by the PATH Permit Administrator or a designee thereof, no later than 5:00 PM of the day following submission of the application, excluding Saturdays, Sundays and holidays recognized by PATH. The reason for the denial of an application or any part thereof shall be set forth in writing.
6. (a) Upon the denial of any application for a permit, or the failure to issue a permit by 5:00 PM of the day following submission of the application, excluding Saturdays, Sundays and holidays recognized by PATH, the applicant may submit a written appeal to the PATH General Manager, or a designee thereof, setting forth the reasons why the application should be granted.
(b) An appeal shall be submitted in person to the PATH Permit Administrator, or a designee thereof, during the hours of 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM, Monday through Friday, excluding holidays. The PATH Permit Administrator, or the designee thereof, shall cause the appeal to be delivered to the General Manager, or a designee thereof.
7. A written decision denying the appeal, or issuing a permit, shall be made no later than 5:00 PM of the day following submission of the appeal, excluding Saturdays, Sundays and holidays recognized by PATH. If no decision is issued by 5:00 PM of the day following submission of the appeal, excluding Saturdays, Sundays and holidays recognized by PATH, the appeal shall be deemed to be denied on the basis of the original decision denying the application.
8. A decision made in response to an application for a permit or an appeal of a denial of a permit shall not disclose information which could be used to aid in the planning of an attempt to disable, destroy, avoid or circumvent any operational, safety, security, evacuation or emergency response device, structure or procedure, or which could be used in the planning of an attempt to commit an act of violence or intentionally cause disruption of rail service or a public panic within the PATH system or a part thereof.
9. Any person whose application for a permit has been denied may seek review of the final decision denying such application in a proceeding commenced pursuant to Article 78 of the Civil Practice Laws and Rules of the State of New York, or action in lieu of prerogative writ in the courts of the State of New Jersey.
10. The General Manager of PATH, or in his or her absence, the person designated to act in his or her stead for general management purposes, may withdraw or suspend a permit for photography in the event of, and during the pendency of, an emergency condition such as a snowstorm, fire, accident, power failure, transportation carrier schedule interruption, or other condition of such nature and character that the conduct of permitted activities would cause a danger to persons or property during the pendency of such emergency condition.
11. For the purpose of this regulation, "holidays" refers to the days set forth in VII (D) (13) above.

I queried PATH about a year ago asking whether there existed any law or ordinance authorizing enforcement of their antiphotography rules. I received a reply, but not an answer.

The only thing of interest related to PATH is WTC reconstruction & the freight on the old PRR JC main. Not even worth it aside from records for posterity.

- A

I will be in Jersey City this Sat, and am wondering where I can get good shots of Path action where the right of way is outside, in Jersey City? thanks.

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:I will be in Jersey City this Sat, and am wondering where I can get good shots of Path action where the right of way is outside, in Jersey City? thanks.

I'd start at the southeast corner of Sip & Summit as shown in this Google Maps link: http://tinyurl.com/pathpicspot

You can try the parking lot of the building to the right (it houses a Motor Vehicle Agency among other things, so it is a public building). Scroll the map to the east and you'll see the Baldwin, Chestnut, and Waldo Ave overpasses (Waldo is pedestrian-only). These have all had mesh guards installed on the sides, so you may have to fiddle to get the view you want.

To the west, you could ask if the parking lot on Pavonia Ave would let you shoot from their top level - if not, there's a de-mapped street that leads to the northwest from that lot which is public property, though with the PATH in a cut there, you may not have the best angle. Further west, Fayette Place is another partially de-mapped steet that parallels the PATH tracks at ground level. If entering via West Side Ave, don't let the Italian catering joint's valets convince you that West Side Ave is their private property. Or, avoid them entirely by going one block west and using Giles Ave. instead.

Thank again.
I was just studying the map, and have some additional observations. I see that NWK Ave runs on the northside of the Path line, just west of JSQ. Having ridden Path many times on the NWK to WTC line, I see that there is a pedestrian overpass that goes over the line just west of the Tonnelle Ave overpass. I see that JFK Blvd might open up a good view looking east.

I hope the neighborhood is safe along the Path Line. I know JSQ is safe.