Railroad Forums 

  • Questions about the Herricks Road Accident - 1982

  • Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.
Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

Moderator: Liquidcamphor

 #733085  by hotbike
 
I'm really at a loss for words. Some of those kids were from my own high school.
The driver picked up some kids everyday as soon as school let out.
In fact, one of them said the van had narrowly missed being hit by a train once or twice before. He ran the gates every day.
IIRC, it was a brown van, and the driver had a bottle of Wild Turkey under the drivers seat.

What bad luck my high school class had, one died in the turret explosion on the USS Iowa, another died in the World Trade Center, the school principal drowned while swimming , and the herricks road disaster.
 #733333  by hotbike
 
The accident did NOT happen at 2 AM, it happened at about 4:22 PM.

I'm sure the Police still had the road closed at 2 AM, for the investigation, extrication, etc.

But the kids had just gotten out of school.

I know what time the accident happened, I went to school with two of them.
 #733384  by cpontani
 
I remember driving through the Herricks Rd. grade crossing a couple of times back in the '90s. From what I remember, it was a very wide crossing...I think two lanes in each direction, and a little bit off 90 degrees. On google maps, it doesn't look a whole lot different than say New Hyde Park Rd., but for whatever reason, it seemed wide. Knowing the history about it, I ALWAYS was careful around that crossing.
 #733397  by frankie
 
cpontani wrote:I remember driving through the Herricks Rd. grade crossing a couple of times back in the '90s...............Knowing the history about it, I ALWAYS was careful around that crossing.
Same with me! My memories go back to '60 when we moved to Mineola. I didn't start driving until '63. My fondest memories was going to Carvel on the corner of Herricks & First St. with my Dad at evening and watching the trains go by as we sat and ate our cones.

I too was ALWAYS very careful crossing those tracks and there were many occasions that as soon as one train cleared the crossing, another would cross from the opposite direction.

Frankie
 #733460  by HalMallon
 
The accident did NOT happen at 2 AM, it happened at about 4:22 PM.

I'm sure the Police still had the road closed at 2 AM, for the investigation, extrication, etc.

But the kids had just gotten out of school.

I know what time the accident happened, I went to school with two of them.

********
Hotbike:

According to the above mentioned link at the NY Times:

"At 2:18 A.M. on March 14, 1982, a cream-colored van packed with 10 teen-agers did not stop at a rail crossing, even though the warning gates were down. A train hit the van broadside at 60 miles an hour, killing 9 of the 10 and tearing the van apart..."

I grew up in Garden City; I was in the ninth grade at the junior high (now middle school). I recall waking up on Sunday morning and my parents were talking about the accident. The group were coming home from a party, probably headed to the Sparta diner down the road from the crossing

Back in 1982, the drinking age was still 18 and MADD probably didn't even exist...
 #733628  by BMC
 
I was working that shift in the Movement Bureau. Took statements from the crew and supervisors on the scene. Mostly all of them had been involved in these type of incidents before, but were deeply affected by this one. I never heard anything about emergency staff looting bodies and since there were police units (Nassau & LIRR) on the scene very quickly and it would have been declared a crime scene right away with even one fatality I don't see how it could happen.

The worst thing was that many of the victims were ejected from the van. Sad day, but caused by stupidity. Though my memory is a little hazy, I know the sate senator's daughter was in the van, but I don't think she was a survivor, but I maybe wrong.
 #733656  by LongIslandTool
 
Gee, BC, your gray hairs are showing. Kathleen Caemmerer did indeed survive her injuries and toured the opening of West Side yard. You were an extra yardmaster there around that time. The yard was named after her father. He had died a month before her accident.

Kathleen was the only survivor. She was still in the van and was transported to the hospital by the off duty cop in the back seat of his personal car quite awhile before an ambulance arrived. She was unconscious until April with a fractured skull and broken leg. Nine others were ejected from the van. All nine others died - most instantly - all at the scene.

It's ironic that Senator John D. Caemmerer was so active in sponsoring highway safety legislation. He had sponsored a bill which reduced the limits of blood alcohol for drunk driving violations and was the sole sponsor of mandatory seat belt use in New York.

Kathleen Caemmerer said later that she remembers almost nothing about the incident.
 #733872  by workextra
 
She was still in the van and was transported to the hospital by the off duty cop in the back seat of his personal car quite awhile before an ambulance arrived.
Nice move by the off duty cop, Sadly nowadays it would most likely arise in a lawsuit of miss conduct and personal injury.
Claiming that the officer injured the victim more by trying to help then by doing the right thing and saving her life.
On the other hand was the grade separation "rushed" and done as cheaply as possible?
There is absolutely no aesthetics to the structure compared to the 1940's style structure over at Roslyn Road.
If the bridge looked nice people would be less likely to see it as a nuisance that does not fit in. It's the same thing when building a ultra modern home in the middle of a Victorian era community. It looks hideous.
*Off Topic
Why was the yard named after her father? did he fight to get WSSY built?
 #733934  by LongIslandTool
 
Herricks Elimination was anything but rushed. It was delayed and delayed due to funding and engineering problems and a need to come up with solutions to minimize the sinking of the road eight feet. There wasn't enough distance to elevate the tracks and maintain minimum grades and nobody wanted to pump water out of the highway 24 hours a day which would be required if it were lowered deeper than that.

The solution was an integral bridge girder/track tie arrangement where I believe the rails are attached directly to the structural members with bolts in nylon anchors. This reduced the depth of the road by the height of a bridge timber, about a foot.

I don't know why more money wasn't spent on appearance -- perhaps it was done to detract from the huge expense, $85 million -- a record amount for a single grade elimination. It took until 1988 to get the funding from the State. The bridge opened ten years later on April 28, 1998.

John Caemmerer was quite influential in obtaining funding for West Side Yard. The concept for the yard was submitted to the State Senate by the Long Island Rail Road in 1981and Cammerer promoted the idea and was largely responsible for its funding.
 #734014  by Head-end View
 
I too remember seeing Ms. Caemmerer interviewed on the news during her recovery and repeatedly telling the impatient reporters that she had no memory of the accident. BTW, it's very risky to transport a seriously injured accident victim in a car. It's very lucky she was not further injured by that experience. Standard practice by emergency personnel would be to "package" the victim using a backboard, straps, neck brace, etc.

The construction project took a very long time as I recall. I for one like the "modern" appearance of the bridge. An efficient form creates its own aesthetics......... Interestingly the Roslyn Rd. underpass is very deep. And 2 walled sumps have been built on either side of it (north side of tracks) to take the rainwater and prevent a "swimming pool" during hard rains. Haven't heard of any flooding there during the recent heavy rains.......
 #734200  by Lirr168
 
Head-end View wrote:I too remember seeing Ms. Caemmerer interviewed on the news during her recovery and repeatedly telling the impatient reporters that she had no memory of the accident. BTW, it's very risky to transport a seriously injured accident victim in a car. It's very lucky she was not further injured by that experience. Standard practice by emergency personnel would be to "package" the victim using a backboard, straps, neck brace, etc.

The construction project took a very long time as I recall. I for one like the "modern" appearance of the bridge. An efficient form creates its own aesthetics......... Interestingly the Roslyn Rd. underpass is very deep. And 2 walled sumps have been built on either side of it (north side of tracks) to take the rainwater and prevent a "swimming pool" during hard rains. Haven't heard of any flooding there during the recent heavy rains.......
Same here. I think it is more aesthetically pleasing than the mostly-generic grade crossings along the Babylon branch.
 #734276  by workextra
 
Compared to almost anything built in the 1960-70 range it looks much better. Most of the Babylon branch elimination has no aesthetics as long as it holds up, and is cheap, who cares how it looks, kind of construction.
Now comparing Herricks road to the new crossing at Roslyn road it's like night and day when it comes to the aesthetics.
Roslyn road looks more pleasing then Herricks road. and the same goes for the Meadowbrook Pky and Cantigue* park road in Hicksville.
An all concrete look seems to be unattractive to the eye compared to something with some old time style. In the end each project is unique to the "era" it's been completed.
 #734650  by BMC
 
Tool ... I was not yet promoted to Yardmaster, I was the Movement Bureau clerk on the 11pm to 7 am shift at that time. And those hours should confirm that the accident did indeed occur on the overnight. I was appointed a Yardmaster in July of 1982.

As always, I will bow to the memories of those with clearer thoughts and now I recall why I thought she had died in the crash. Part of my job was to take the major "A&I's" (Accidents & Injuries) from the at the time LIRR PD. With all the supervision at the scene, others called into 204 and radio transmissions there was a lot going on.

The initial report from the scene was that ALL of the kids had died. In addition to logging that on the main log I would then call a variety of management to advise them of the latest info. About a hour later, I took another call that said she had survived. Both I and the Chief were furious, but in reality it was understandable considering how hectic it was.

What I clearly remember is how 'shook up' the supervisors and crews were. All the statements that I took were gut wrenching.
 #734824  by LongIslandTool
 
Oh yes, it happened in the wee hours of the morning on the overnight as you recall.

And while you were indeed covering the Clerk's job in the Bureau when the accident happened, you were a well-broken-in yardmaster by the time Miss Caemmera wandered into West Side for the dedication tour.

Not sure if he was working that night, but a qualified Dispatcher from that era posts here often. I do recall that JT was on duty, as I spoke with him before speaking with ... you.