Question about the "WAKE", the Tropicana Juice train in 1979

"WA" was the old code.

Potomac yard was changed at some point to PY, though I don't know exactly when. The answer is somewhere in these freight schedules, if you look.

http://www.multimodalways.org/archives/ ... dules.html

Browsing through the schedules it was sometime between 1979 and 1983 that the symbol
switched for Potomac Yard from "WA" to "PY".

Charlie

Penn Central days and pre 1983 CR it was symboled OJT and IIRC OJT-2. Pre 1977 it was usually assigned 3 E-44's and a special duty road foreman rode every northbound trip out of Pot yard all the way to the Meadows. Tropicana's New Jersey facility was located in the Meadows yard opposite South Kearney piggyback yard. The northbound loads had a 65 car limit, if I remember correctly, as longer trains had trouble pulling knuckle's and on occasion draw heads out. It was hard to handle as it surged like hell if more than a minimum brake pipe reduction was made. Running below Baltimore on the B & P's roller coaster profile was an exercise in very careful train handling and application of throttle with a MAS limit of 60 mph the entire route. E-44's and GG-1's were equipped with speed control and required a heavy brake application to suppress a penalty application and every effort was made by the train dispatchers to give it the railroad and not fool around with it as it was super hot. Prior to the modern age, the empty " Trops" were handled nightly on the hind end of TV-23 south bound rather than todays dedicated CSX empty trains operating out of Greenville a few nights a week shooting empties back to Florida. Northbound TV-24 was another relay job, like the juice, that mostly changed power and got out of Pot yard without pick up or setout.

Thank you for your insights zeke! I may have to pick your brain further, as I am curious about the trailvan operations through New Jersey as well. Both of these trains are something I hope to model, but it is difficult to get a good feel for things with just photographs.

Sure fire away but in this forum it's post 1976 CR era . In the Penn Central era then try the Fallen flags PC forum.

I'm also modelling Greenville Yard and Tropicana modern day (well 15 years ago so 1999-2001 era). I took about 50 pics in 2 trips to Greenville back in 2002 and mapped out the yard to get a feel and spoke to a few people on the forums back then (this is my first post to railroad,net in over 10 years) but now that I have settled into life and finally have a layout started I have some more blanks to fill in. here it goes for anyone who knows

All questions pertain to how it was done between 1999-2001

1. How many and what type of locomotives brought the juice train into Greenville? Did the big six axle diesels double head right to the facility or did they cut off at Oak Island and smaller or older motive power make the short trip to NJ. My hunch is that the train went all the way through OI without stopping but not sure

2. What would be your typical motive power back then?

3. What type of leased unit did Tropicana have and how often did they switch it out. One pic I have shows what looks to be a U-boat or old Alco but couldn't get close enough to see and 15 years ago I was pretty panicked post 9/11 about trespassing so could not get a good visual

4. There are 2 lead tracks running past the facility. Any preference on which one Conrail Shared Assets chose to bring the train into? I assume the other was left as a run around.

5. Where did Tropicana leave the emptys for Conrail Shared Assets?

Any further insight or photos from that era would be much appreciated. Take your time. I figure I have about another 20-30 years before my layout is "complete". It took me 15 years to start the dang thing.

After the month of May 1999 CSX ran it and the train usually had 3 EMD SD's or GE's. It seemed a lot shorter then 65 cars when I would see it about twice a week around 10 pm going by NK tower or Aldene. If the road crew had time they would take the train into Greenville and run the power lite back to 91 Bay in Oak Island. This is what I could deduce hearing over the radio so it may not have worked this way. Cant help much as I was working for NJT and only met it when it was running from CP ALDENE to NK.

I was the Engr. on the Juice Train Many Times. On the Prr and PC it was called the MD6B Pot Yd to the Meadows yd in Kearny the later it was the WAKE then changed to OJT. I ran it always with # E-44's Only ran the NEC in those days. That was one tough train to handle! The emppy cars would go south on MD13 or TV23 back to POT Yd.

rubberheels wrote:I was the Engr. on the Juice Train Many Times. On the Prr and PC it was called the MD6B Pot Yd to the Meadows yd in Kearny the later it was the WAKE then changed to OJT. I ran it always with # E-44's Only ran the NEC in those days. That was one tough train to handle! The emppy cars would go south on MD13 or TV23 back to POT Yd.

That sounds like what I've been picking up over the years!

I have a few questions that have come up in the meantime since I made the initial post. In one photo in the "Conrail Under Wires Volume 2", there is a photo of a set of Tropicana "Containers" heading north bound. Have you seen these, or do you know anything about them?

In the meantime, my modelling of this train has stalled. I have the E44s, but now the Juice Train cars are almost harder to find for this era!

Side question, were the E44s reliable? I always hear either that they were fantastic, or that they were constantly breaking down. There are so many conflicting reports.

Thanks!

Not true the 44's were very reliable but boy were they strong the later ones are 5000 hp many a knuckle and X-ray bar were pulled. Nothing ever could compare to GG1's they never were allowed on the Juice Train But we did use 3 sd 40's and they did a good job

Great to see some traction on this thread! I logged back in on a lark after being away for a bit. Still looking for as much information on the Juice train from 1999 as possible. I can kick myself that I didn't get to spend any time there back then. Specifically looking for the motive power used, how the cars were switched (I read somewhere that the empties went back south in regular trains) etc. So my specific questions from 1999

1. Was Conrail power used in late 1999 still or did CSX pick up the train immediately after the June 1st merger?
2. What power was typical in late 1999?
3. There are 2 tracks that come in next to the facility in Greenville. Which track did the train come in on?
4. What was typical leased power in 1999 for the switching in the yard?
5. Did that leased power venture into yard A to drop off empties? Or did a local take them off a lead track?

I may have follow up questions but we'll start there. Thank you in advance for any information.

Joe

Edit - just re-read my original post on this thread. I see some of the questions on motive power were answered so thank you! Still hoping to fill in some blanks

Some additional notes, we seem to have interest in both earlier and later operations...here's what I know about the transitional period.

By late 1980s, the Juice Train was symbol OJT and no longer ran on the Northeast Corridor, but rather via CSX (ex-B&O) between DC and Philadelphia and ex-Reading and ex-Lehigh Valley Conrail nee-CSX/CSX-NS "Shared Assets" routes from Philadelphia, to avoid Amtrak's high car-mile charges to use "Corridor" tracks. Under Conrail, 3 SD40-2s seemed to be the popular power in the earlier "post corridor" period, but later on CSX power would frequently run through all the way to Kearney (or at least, to Oak Island, I didn't ever see what power actually towed the train into the Kearney facility, just saw what ran through on the Lehigh Line). CSX run-through power in early to mid 1990s was typically two of the (then new or fairly new) C40-8s, and/or C40-8Ws. Post Conrail split, CSX power, including ex-Conrail power renumbered but not yet repainted (for a while, anyway) would have been the norm, I expect.