Presidential Trains (Inauguration, Campaign, Etc.)

rohr turbo wrote:electricron: I don't think anyone here is proposing the President take LONG journeys (say 5+ hours) by train. I believe the OP wonders why couldn't the President occassionally take a short journey by train, as some foreign leaders do. I'm sure the answer is that US security protocols (which I think are a bit over the top) make it far more logistically difficult to travel by train than by AF1.

Nevertheless, it sure would be nice if Amtrak decked out a modern trainset that they have lying in storage as Amtrak-One. But I'm not allowed to discuss that here

Wrong type of train, I'm thinking it'll be a RDC or modern DMU type train, where the driver is contained within the same protective armor as the President, the same kevlar and bullet proof glass. They Igor have to increase the horsepower rating of the diesels because the cars will certainly weigh more.

Never-the-less, they would have to find secure lay over facilities for the train, and where would that be in D.C., New York City, Chicago, or Los Angeles?

Distances are just too far for most of the trips, there is just too few trips it would be useful for the expense the taxpayers will be expected to pay for it.

I have some TN's way back when Roosevelt and other presidents had their special trains and the disruption even back in the 30's and 40's was bad enough. Such disruptions today should be unthinkable especially when you have thousands of commuter passengers as well as Amtrak passengers who would be delayed or disrupted for much of a day. I love passenger trains and would love for this to happen but to be very reasonable to the thousands of daily rail riders in the NEC, a POTUS special would totally disrupt too many paying passengers to be practical. It is easier and cheaper to use Air Force 1 and the copter than to try to do such a trip by rail. The security measures that would be in place today are much more strict than the measures taken years ago. Some things a plane does better than a train and this is one of them.
Noel Weaver

SouthernRailway wrote:I see that President Trump recently flew from D.C. to Philadelphia and may regularly travel between D.C. and NYC.

Why doesn't he take his own special Amtrak train instead for short trips like those? Couldn't Amtrak turn a few locomotives and cars over to the Federal government for Presidential use?

I know that Queen Elizabeth takes commuter trains, and there are several Royal trains in Europe, so having senior leaders travel by train happens elsewhere. It seems wasteful to tie up large airports for short Presidential flights.

Don't forget when the President flies he also brings along the Beast. Depending on the destination, there may be 10 Beast in the parade. For the SS there may be plenty of other vehicles from SUV to whatever they need.

The "beast" is the President's Limo,add to it the "backup" limo ,and all the Secret Service SUV's the Agents and staffers ride in
flown ahead on a AF cargo plane as is a "smaller" version of Marine 1 Helicopter.
Also there's a "Pool" press crew that travels with President
There are "backups" for the backups on the move as well.

The president could take the "beast" on the Auto Train, lol.

It would be a good idea for the president to take a trip on public transportation - amtrak, commuter rail, subway, or streetcar. It could be a shorter, symbolic trip on a Sunday to minimize interference. In the case of Boston, say from BOS to Route 128 with dummy automobile convoy.

The "beast" would need to be on a 6 axle flat car used for moving M1A1 Tanks,overweight for Auto Train's Tri-Racks.

David Benton wrote:On that note , the Queen is only a "figurehead" head of state for the UK. she makes no decisions or policy. The royal train is probably not as big a security risk as a Presidential train would be .

You are wrong with that, it's true that the Queen is not governing on daily basis, but she has still powers(very strong powers, more than POTUS, but she won't use it, but she can). So she is the formal head of state and government, but on a daily basis her government (PM + ministers) and the house of commons govern the UK.

SRich wrote:

David Benton wrote:On that note , the Queen is only a "figurehead" head of state for the UK. she makes no decisions or policy. The royal train is probably not as big a security risk as a Presidential train would be .

You are wrong with that, it's true that the Queen is not governing on daily basis, but she has still powers(very strong powers, more than POTUS, but she won't use it, but she can). So she is the formal head of state and government, but on a daily basis her government (PM + ministers) and the house of commons govern the UK.

Benton is not wrong on that. The Queen has substantial legal powers, but does not exercise them unless advised to do so by her Ministers. This isn't just a case on a daily basis, it is always true for all issues of public policy. She is for all practical purposes, a figurehead like the King of Sweden or the Emperor of Japan. In the Westminster System, unwritten norms are regarded as having constitutional status

TO keep on subject, the Emperor of Japan also has a neat train.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E655_series" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I would say the last time a Queen of England made a ruling , it involved a tower,and a head end been seperated from the rest of the train. To use a railroad parrallel.

David Benton wrote:I would say the last time a Queen of England made a ruling , it involved a tower,and a head end been seperated from the rest of the train. To use a railroad parrallel.

I believe the last time she carried out a discretionary political decision was in 1961 when she appointed Lord Home as Prime Minister, since the incumbent Conservative Prime Minister had suddenly resigned and the Conservative Party, in good old conservative style, did not have a formal process for selecting a leader, instead relying on leaders to organically 'emerge'. Otherwise, the Queen's representative in Australia dismissed the Prime Minister in 1975 for failing to pass a budget through the Senate and called a new election (since the Westminster System does not allow these US-style immovable-object deadlock crises to long endure)

In other news, the Imperial train in Japan is an EMU set, and is day to day used for charter and excursion services minus the Imperial car.

The Queen's representative in Australia, the Governor-General, also kicked out an elected government in the 1970s and had new elections done.

The Queen is too savvy to try to govern, but she does have substantial powers "in name only" (which she doesn't exercise, and practically speaking cannot), and she is the head of state of 16 countries, including Australia, Canada and New Zealand. Plus she and her family are global celebrities. I'd say that she needs to be kept safe, with a high degree of security--and the UK believes that commuter trains are safe enough for her, then something less than Air Force One should be safe for Pres. Trump.

SouthernRailway wrote:The Queen's representative in Australia, the Governor-General, also kicked out an elected government in the 1970s and had new elections done.

The Queen is too savvy to try to govern, but she does have substantial powers "in name only" (which she doesn't exercise, and practically speaking cannot), and she is the head of state of 16 countries, including Australia, Canada and New Zealand. Plus she and her family are global celebrities. I'd say that she needs to be kept safe, with a high degree of security--and the UK believes that commuter trains are safe enough for her, then something less than Air Force One should be safe for Pres. Trump.

You must be kidding, when's the last time somebody tried to kill the Queen? When's the last time the queen faced rioting protestors? Since she has been queen, four Presidents have been shot at: one wounded seriously and another killed! A non armored car, train, plane will never provide enough security for the President of the USA.

electricron wrote:

SouthernRailway wrote:The Queen's representative in Australia, the Governor-General, also kicked out an elected government in the 1970s and had new elections done.

The Queen is too savvy to try to govern, but she does have substantial powers "in name only" (which she doesn't exercise, and practically speaking cannot), and she is the head of state of 16 countries, including Australia, Canada and New Zealand. Plus she and her family are global celebrities. I'd say that she needs to be kept safe, with a high degree of security--and the UK believes that commuter trains are safe enough for her, then something less than Air Force One should be safe for Pres. Trump.

You must be kidding, when's the last time somebody tried to kill the Queen? When's the last time the queen faced rioting protestors? Since she has been queen, four Presidents have been shot at: one wounded seriously and another killed! A non armored car, train, plane will never provide enough security for the President of the USA.

I'm not kidding. I'm literate.

The last time someone tried to kill the Queen was in 2014, when there was a plot to stab her. Prince Charles was attacked recently while in his car in London with Camilla.

Try Google or BBC.co.uk.

electricron wrote: You must be kidding, when's the last time somebody tried to kill the Queen? When's the last time the queen faced rioting protestors? Since she has been queen, four Presidents have been shot at: one wounded seriously and another killed! A non armored car, train, plane will never provide enough security for the President of the USA.

I don't follow your logic -- Reagan was shot out on a sidewalk; Ford was almost shot out in public; Kennedy was shot in an open-air car. (I can't think of your fourth example). There was absolutely no vehicular protection for presidents in these situations.

Wouldn't any old Amfleet (or Turbo) coach with standard locomotive provide (essentially) bulletproof and brickproof windows to protect VIPs and engineer?

Ore build an US government owned train, with an dual power loc on each side so the is always an way to travel with 1 loc down.