Potential Stimulus and SEPTA

Topics are going regarding infrastructure stimulus for Amtrak and New Jersey Transit. What would be your wish list items for SEPTA?

1 - New cars to replace the Silverliner IVs (at least a portion of them).

2 - New trolley cars and necessary improvements to run them.

3 - Clean-up of the Paoli-Thorndale interlockings between Villanova and the Zoo. - Probably the easiest thing you can do to speed up service anywhere.

4 - Extensions of Regional Rail to Phoenixville, Atlgen, and Perkasie.

5 - Accelerate station projects.

6. Begin construction of the NHSL spur to K of P.

7. Extend the BSS farther south (route and terminus purposely left vague)

8. Extend the 36 trolley to the Airport and/or extend the 10 to a joint station with the Paoli line at Overbrook.

9. Consolidate the Radnor NHSL and RRD stations with a park-and-ride off I-476.

Considering that I moved to Phoenixville last year, I would love Regional Rail. My last home had a NHSL station around the corner. I miss that for the Center City connection, but the extension to KOP makes sense, too.

Quinn wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:49 pm Considering that I moved to Phoenixville last year, I would love Regional Rail. My last home had a NHSL station around the corner. I miss that for the Center City connection, but the extension to KOP makes sense, too.

Limited service to Phoenixville may be one of the more attainable projects, IF an agreement can be reached to allow mixed traffic northwest of Norristown and SEPTA is willing to run non-electric equipment. It’s doubtful service could be frequent but some rush-hour runs would take a load off 422.

That's what I'm hoping for. I work in the city, but the hours that I commute really don't mesh with Regional Rail schedules, so, personally it wouldn't be a daily-use situation. I would like the ability to get into Philly via train for other times, though. I agree with you on 422. Anything to lighten the load there is a bonus.

Pipe dream guys. This economy is going to be so hosed we'll be lucky if there's a transit system a year from now, and I doubt people will return to riding for fear of catching the China Virus.

We know it’s a dream, but it’s entertaining while we’re stuck at home.

And yes, no one has any idea what things will look like a year from now. How many employers will continue to let people telework? How many former commuters will choose to drive out of fear of renewed exposure? Will transit systems be reduced to carrying only people who have no alternative rather than being a voluntary decision for many more users?

Add as many high level platforms as possible on the Septa system, starting off with the stations that are presently low level platform on routes used by Amtrak trains. These routes draw a lot of high ridership.

Everyone:

BNT has a point: Before we even think of expanding SEPTA services the current system
has to be able to survive in the first place.

SEPTA's ridership losses and funding issues MUST be dealt with.

Mass transportation is NOT designed for "social distancing". There may be a substantial
portion of riders that never return to the system once a state of normalcy finally returns.

Jeff: All of your questions are good ones - I will reply as follows:
1-Yes...Some riders may not return with the work from home option.
2-With gas prices low (oil is about $20/barrel as of now) there will be more
riders that choose to "distance" themselves by driving instead of using transit.
3-One of the biggest problems that transit systems have is the thought that it is
"only for poor people" and/or those without vehicle access.
In a transit dependent City of Philadelphia (with a 25 percent poverty rate)
this is a major problem going forward...

In closing let's deal with the present problems before we can plan for the future...
MACTRAXX

MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:31 pm Everyone:

BNT has a point: Before we even think of expanding SEPTA services the current system
has to be able to survive in the first place.

SEPTA's ridership losses and funding issues MUST be dealt with.

Mass transportation is NOT designed for "social distancing". There may be a substantial
portion of riders that never return to the system once a state of normalcy finally returns.

Jeff: All of your questions are good ones - I will reply as follows:
1-Yes...Some riders may not return with the work from home option.
2-With gas prices low (oil is about $20/barrel as of now) there will be more
riders that choose to "distance" themselves by driving instead of using transit.
3-One of the biggest problems that transit systems have is the thought that it is
"only for poor people" and/or those without vehicle access.
In a transit dependent City of Philadelphia (with a 25 percent poverty rate)
this is a major problem going forward...

In closing let's deal with the present problems before we can plan for the future...
MACTRAXX

It will take some time for the U.S. economy to fully recover from this pandemic, which also includes many people getting jobs back. However, transit systems is NOT for the "poor people" no matter where the system is. Public transit systems of all methods are used by a large number of people, blue collar and white collar, in order to transport from their homes to larger cities on a daily basis in a quicker amount of time and by more efficient means than being stuck in traffic and having to find somewhere to park and pay for gas.

Do we really need all of these so-called reality checks in multiple threads and forums that state the same pessimistic world-view that we are experiencing? Especially as most of these possible stimulus threads (and others) are trying to look forward for possibilities of enhanced service or capital expenditures.

SS (and Everyone):

After a long period of thought this question has TWO answers:

1: Yes-we DO need to discuss the current issues that SEPTA is dealing with.
2- No-this subject does NOT have to be here. This can be under a COVID-19 topic
or under a new topic created expressly for this subject about SEPTA's current affairs.

SEPTA financially may be the most vulnerable rail transit system that we directly cover
in these Forums here at Railroad.net. because of their funding sources.
SEPTA may undergo changes that none of us could even think about just months ago.
SEPTA as we now know it may never be the same going into the future.

I would much rather think of "Continuous Improvement" as SEPTA once used in
mission statements but this current situation is something none of us have ever experienced before...

I have thoughts about the suggestions that have been discussed in this topic and many
are very good - I am going to reply and add some of my own thoughts on this subject.

I wish that what is affecting all of us in our lives could be nothing but a bad dream.
I am getting frankly tired of hearing the term "Coronavirus" being constantly used -
but this unfortunately is the proverbial "800 pound gorilla" that is the unwanted guest here...MACTRAXX

Everyone:

As I previously mentioned here is my thoughts on this topic in terms of future SEPTA improvements:

1-A new Silverliner Six MU fleet is an important Regional Rail improvement.
The Silverliner Four cars date from 1974-75-76 (46-45-44 years old in 2020)
They are not getting any younger and even with their advanced age they still are
the backbone of the RRD car fleet.

2-A new LRV fleet to replace the early 80s Kawasaki cars. The Kawasaki LRV cars are
late 30s age-wise and are ADA "grandfathered" in not having access for the disabled.

3-Work on Main Line interlockings at Bryn Mawr, Overbrook; between the Overbrook
shop and the Zoo Tower area would help improve operations. This should be a team
effort between Amtrak, SEPTA and PennDot.

4-Service extensions to Pottstown (and maybe Reading); Main Line service west of
Parkesburg into Lancaster County to a new Leaman Place Station and ultimately Lancaster; Bethlehem Branch service to Quakertown -
(and maybe Bethlehem depending on if the ROW is intact and preserved
north of Shelly and the Bucks-Lehigh County line.)

5-Station projects planned such as improvements at Jenkintown should have some priority.

6-The NHSL line to "King of Pressure" would be a good alternative to the
traffic problems in the area serving the area's largest shopping complex.
Getting past the shortsighted NIMBY opposition to the line is important here...

7-Extending the Broad Street Line to the Navy Yard area is a good addition.
A proposed extension mentioned in the past would be to a new park-and-ride
facility in National Park, NJ via a new tunnel under the Delaware River.
This would be very expensive and offer limited new commuting options.

8-Extending the #36 trolley route to connect at Eastwick with the Airport Line
is a start - going to PHL would be an interesting further addition to the line.
A #10 extension to Overbrook Station again adds more commuting options.

9-A new Radnor TC would be another interesting option to offer direct connections
between the Paoli/Thorndale and NHSL over the current walk between stations there.
For those unaware transfers between the Paoli/Thorndale Line and the NHSL that are
within reasonable walking distance are also available at Villanova and Bryn Mawr.
I am familiar with - and have used - all three places to transfer in the past.

MACTRAXX

2. The current crisis may (will?) have a huge negative impact on replacing the LRVs. From what little I’ve heard, the project is in already in jeopardy due to DC’s "slow-walking" of transit funding. The K-cars are well made but pushing 40 years. I’m hoping SEPTA doesn’t find itself in the same situation as with the old Brills and St. Louie cars, where they were cannibalizing the worst ones and actually making replacement parts in-house when OEMs weren’t available.

6. SEPTA made a major blunder by initially proposing the line run along the VF Homes boundary. They soon moved it to the other side of the turnpike, but not before the NIMBYs were able to redefine the whole thing as a neighborhood-destroying monster. Their oppo group also brought in people from out of the area who latched onto it with all of the standard anti-transit tropes plus - no way to avoid this - a generous helping of racism. The business community's strongly in favor, though, which has helped blunt some of the more-vocal criticism.

8.,9. These ideas are all related to improved connectivity. Because many parts of SEPTA's network were built by private, competing companies lines and stations that rationally should have been co-sited were instead prevented from offering easy transfers. IF projects like these and others could find their way into medium-term plans instead of being "someday" thoughts, the comparatively low capital outlays would offer commuters many more options. Of course for true integration SEPTA would have to offer more-seamless fares between the transit and RRD sides, maybe something similar to policies in Berlin or Paris.

2. The current crisis may (will?) have a huge negative impact on replacing the LRVs. From what little I’ve heard, the project is in already in jeopardy due to DC’s "slow-walking" of transit funding. The K-cars are well made but pushing 40 years. I’m hoping SEPTA doesn’t find itself in the same situation as with the old Brills and St. Louie cars, where they were cannibalizing the worst ones and actually making replacement parts in-house when OEMs weren’t available.

6. SEPTA made a major blunder by initially proposing the line run along the VF Homes boundary. They soon moved it to the other side of the turnpike, but not before the NIMBYs were able to redefine the whole thing as a neighborhood-destroying monster. Their oppo group also brought in people from out of the area who latched onto it with all of the standard anti-transit tropes plus - no way to avoid this - a generous helping of racism. The business community's strongly in favor, though, which has helped blunt some of the more-vocal criticism.

8.,9. These ideas are all tied to improved connectivity. Because many parts of SEPTA's network were built by private, competing companies lines and stations that rationally should have been co-sited were instead located to impede easy transfers. IF projects like these and others could find their way into medium-term plans instead of being "someday" thoughts, their comparatively low capital costs would offer commuters many more options. Of course for true integration SEPTA would have to offer more-seamless fares between the transit and RRD sides, maybe something similar to policies in Berlin or Paris.