Potential MBTA Southern NH Service

Disney Guy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 8:53 pm "" Those poor NH Taxpayers....will no one HELP them??? ""

They need to help themselves. To keep the New Hampshire tradition of electing a governor who will veto any broad based tax such as a sales tax or income tax.

We're all set.

Most of the chime ins here make me very grateful that our government is setup so that Northern MA ie Nashua cannot make decisions for the entire state.

wicked wrote: ↑Sat Sep 14, 2024 11:50 am Let the T run unsubsidized trains to Nashua, like MARC does to West Virginia. That’s the only way it’d ever happen. Even with the higher fare, I suspect there will be some cohort of New Hampshire residents who’d commute regularly.

BowdoinStation wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 9:26 am The other day, I drove past the Concord Coach bus terminal in Concord, and the main parking lot & overflow lots were about as full as I have seen them, which makes me think, "If they build it, they will come"..

In reality, NH is not set up fiscally to build and pay out for such an undertaking. Any politician running for office that runs on adding a sales or income tax will not get very far.. The Democratic Candidate for NH Governor wants to bring commuter rail to NH, however she fails to mention the big question.. How will commuter rail be funded & who pays ??

Went to Concord Coach website. Concord - BOS fare appears to be $20. Zone 10 MBTA Commuter Rail is $13.25. Lowell is Zone 6 $10.50. Concord to Lowell is 51 miles. Manchester Airport to Lowell is about 30 miles. Nashua to Lowell is about 17 miles. Pheasant Lane Mall to Lowell is about 12 miles.

What would the unsubsidized fare to South Nashua (Pheasant Lane) need to be to break even? To Manchester? The need to go to Concord is not as pressing as there is less traffic congestion, so leave that for later. Concord Coach says their buses are 51 passenger with a crew of 1. MBTA train with three double deckers, thats what 600 seats or equivalent of 12 buses. What is the minimum MBTA CR crew size? Two? Three? During the golden age of railroading from the 1830s to the 1910s this line made lots of money running unsubsidized trains and was in high demand despite much lower population.

I’ll precede this point by saying I’m a proponent of rail to Nashua/Manchester/Concord, but to be fair to your last point, fewer people owned cars in the late 1800s and early 1900s, and rail connectivity was a lot smoother.

Electric streetcars became a thing in the 1890s. Model "T"s came out in 1908. Buses and trucks became a thing roughly about the same time - Mack dates back to about 1900. Railroads and streetcar companies that didn't see the writing on the wall were still making investments in the mid teens. By the 1920s streetcar lines were being discontinued or converted and the Boston Elevated became a ward of the state in 1922. Then the great depression, then the reprieve for WWII, then things got bad in the 1950s - 70s. The B&M started receiving some subsidies in the 1960s. Massachusetts has built very, very little new highway since about 1971 while populations in MA & NH exploded. Boston and Cambridge signed a consent decree with the EPA about 1971 - so parking has been restricted ever since causing parking costs to explode. Parking + congestion + high fuel / charging cost + high automobile cost create an opportunity for Commuter Rail to take back a small percentage of the automobile traffic. The "Network effect" is still very much lacking.

R36 Combine Coach wrote: ↑Sat Sep 14, 2024 2:24 pm SEPTA runs into NJ without NJDOT or NJT subsidy

However SEPTA changes an extra fare, $2 more or less depending on how you pay, for riders going to/from NJ.

Perhaps MBTA could do the same thing to South Nashua and pay for it that way.

South Nashua is like 10 feet into NH, right? Because of 93, 3 congestion and higher cost of parking in MA, I would think NH folks would gladly pay a $2 surcharge. But MBTA has some of the highest costs in the nation...

jonnhrr wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 10:51 am

R36 Combine Coach wrote: ↑Sat Sep 14, 2024 2:24 pm SEPTA runs into NJ without NJDOT or NJT subsidy

However SEPTA changes an extra fare, $2 more or less depending on how you pay, for riders going to/from NJ.

Perhaps MBTA could do the same thing to South Nashua and pay for it that way.

SEPTA Regional Rail charges on average $5 per ticket extra to travel to the two New Jersey stations
which are Trenton (NJT NEC connection-former PRR/PC) and West Trenton (former RDG WT Line) from the
Center City Philadelphia stations (30th Street, Suburban and Jefferson/Market East Stations) as example...

As a previous example SEPTA once sold an unlimited-use "Independence Pass" valid for one day on all
SEPTA services including Regional Rail...Traveling to Zone NJ (Trenton and West Trenton) required a $5
extra surcharge be paid on board in either direction...

There could be an extra fare or charge implemented for MBTA Commuter Rail service into New Hampshire...
MACTRAXX

If it is a good service, people will come. This is not the age of Eisenhower and many people like and use transit, in addition to their cars. Buses aren't so nice, and parking in Boston is a nightmare.

People can also work / sleep / stream on the train, which didn't used to be as productive. That is critical and a big part of the pitch / appeal.

The exceptionalism of 'X place won't use it because of libertarian cosplay', is nonsense.

I work out of Lowell often and lived there for some years. An extension to Pheasant Lane and at least Downtown Nashua would be great for these cities and open up economic opportunity. Nashua is pretty insulated and I don't think you need worry about the crackheads infiltrating New Hamster.
An extension to Plaistow \ Salem on the Haverhill would improve traffic on I-93 as well. They are using our roads, they can help us out a little.

The T offered to build a station in Plaistow for free, provided it would accept an MBTA layover facility. Plaistow said no.

They should ask Plaistow again

Why? Aren’t they enhancing Bradford anyway?

jonnhrr wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 10:51 am

R36 Combine Coach wrote: ↑Sat Sep 14, 2024 2:24 pm SEPTA runs into NJ without NJDOT or NJT subsidy

However SEPTA changes an extra fare, $2 more or less depending on how you pay, for riders going to/from NJ.

Perhaps MBTA could do the same thing to South Nashua and pay for it that way.

One other thing about SEPTA that wouldn't apply to Southern NH. NJ Transit has their Morrisville Yard in Pennsylvania that they use as the layover facility for Trenton. So PA allowing NJ Transit a Yard in PA is kind of a you scratch my back I will scratch yours type of deal. Not sure what Subsidies Delaware provides SEPTA on the other end for service to Newark and Wilmington however.

A more recent situation is when the MBTA resumed Providence service after the Southwest Corridor project. Pawtucket/Central Falls had been closed, and at the time the new Providence Station opened and the MBTA resumed service, Rhode Island did not want to subsidize a station in Rhode Island (Obviously Rhode Island has completely changed their tune since then), so the MBTA built South Attleboro station as a result which was still in MA but right on the state line so that the Pawtucket catchment area would someone be captured by the new station. Since the Pheasant Lane Mall is right on the NH/MA border, you could run the train to just shy of the state line and grab the Nashua catchment area. And if the station is close enough to the state line where people can walk across into New Hampshire, and maybe tax free shop at Pheasant Lane, I think it could really do well.

Why should MA build a station to serve NH residents and aid in tax evasion?

The only advantage to MA would be to reduce congestion in Boston by keeping NH cars out.