• Potential MBTA Southern NH Service

  • Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.
Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

Moderators: CRail, sery2831

  by shadyjay
 
BandA wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:13 pm https://www.nh.gov/dot/projects/nashuam ... 232021.pdf This is from 2021, but pp6 looks like the same illustration, and is much clearer than the picture in the newspaper. Looks like a hospital outpatient building is displaced.
Actually the link where Manchester approves layover site, the plan image of the layover site and adjacent properties can be clicked to enlarge. The "hospital" is not displaced... that's in pink. The layover facility is adjacent and in purple. Poor color choice for two adjacent, different-use parcels.
  by BandA
 
Looks like they need $11,000,000 / yr in state/local funding (based on 2004?). Documents say it is most likely to get $10M from taking 7.6% of the State Capital Program, + $0.7M from charging $4 / day for parking. Is using capital money for operating expenses gonna fly in NH?
  by mbrproductions
 
+ $0.7M from charging $4 / day for parking.
By this do you mean parking in the cities of Nashua and Manchester in general or parking at the Commuter Rail stations?
Is using capital money for operating expenses gonna fly in NH?
Who knows, there is that HB 1432 bill which stays in commission until March, If the bill is hopefully rejected then its a straight path to finally getting Commuter Rail to New Hampshire. I think the recent approval of the layover yard in Manchester shows that the tides have begun to turn up there and people are definitely more welcoming to this project than ever before
  by BandA
 
mbrproductions wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:24 pmBy this do you mean parking in the cities of Nashua and Manchester in general or parking at the Commuter Rail stations?
From pp19 of the 2014 financial planhttps://www.nh.gov/dot/org/aerorailtran ... ancial.pdf
Based on data provided by Jacobs Engineering, an estimated 470 to 925 parking spaces would available at planned commuter and intercity rail park-and-ride lots, depending on the alternative; if fully occupied 240 days per year, with a per-day parking fee of $4.00, parking revenues would total between $0.5 million and $0.9 million annually; a midrange of parking yields $0.7 million annually; for comparison, most MBTA commuter rail park-and-ride facilities charge $4.00 per day; in Lowell, garage parking is priced at $5.00 per day This fee could be extended to other park-and-ride facilities, specifically those used by riders of intercity bus service between New Hampshire and Boston.
  by GaryGP40
 
I've heard dribs and drabs about this for a while (Lowell to Nashua, then perhaps beyond to Manchester) but most of it doesn't seem to gain much traction.

IIRC I believe NHDOT doesn't subsidize Amtrak for the Downeaster, either. Perhaps they don't want more people escaping MA and polluting the "Live Free or Die" state. :-D
  by mbrproductions
 
Not anymore, Commuter Rail is more welcomed to NH now than it has ever been before, as shown by the approval of the Manchester, NH layover yard
  by Trinnau
 
I wouldn't put much stock in the 2014 study that used 2012 dollars. Have to wait and see what the current study comes up with for revised financials, and in terms of COVID impacts.
  by GaryGP40
 
My cousin (and his son for a time) took a bus from NH to Boston, so I would think a commuter rail option would be great for them, but he's retired now so he doesn't use it any longer.

Personally, I think it's terrific myself. I'd like to see it happen, but there's always roadblocks and money and other stuff thrown it to deal with.
  by mbrproductions
 
An interesting article from one of the naysayers (definitely a first). Apparently the MBTA itself has no interest in running service to New Hampshire, even with the bipartisan infrastructure plan and are more focused on lowering their carbon footprint. This begs the question of why there are still efforts to bring it to New Hampshire when the MBTA itself doesn't even want it. It seems like unless Amtrak is looking to run the route in the future then its the end for this proposal.
https://patch.com/new-hampshire/bedford ... no-part-it
  by charlesriverbranch
 
"NHDOT doesn't subsidize Amtrak for the Downeaster".

No, they don't, and neither does Massachusetts. NNEPRA, the agency that hires Amtrak to run it, is an agency of the state of Maine.

Re: the MBTA "not wanting" commuter rail to NH: I think the article distorts the fact that the MBTA is an agency of Massachusetts, its mission being to serve residents of the Commonwealth. It doesn't "want" commuter rail service in Rhode Island, but will provide the service if RI pays for it. I suspect it would do the same for NH.
  by mbrproductions
 
You're right, I can't believe I fell for the author's dishonest journalism :( , especially when I already knew that most of the author's previous articles on this topic were dishonest, although here she does cite the Rail Vision study with the following quote from Derek Shooster, "I can tell you with 100% certainty that MBTA has no aspirations to "export idling trains to NH." She includes a link but the link lacks any such quote, so I have no idea where this is from. She also writes, "Apparently MBTA would turn down $12.8 million from NH for operations across the border", but this is an uncited, baseless, and quite unlikely claim.
Thanks for the wake up call. It appears the only thing to do now is wait and see how (and if) this service will be paid for.
  by Train60
 
Maybe its been said already, but its likely that there are only two models for this:

Either the MBTA/Keolis operates the trains between North Station and NH - with NHDOT paying all of the costs associated with the service north of Lowell. (similar to the arrangement that the MBTA has with RIPTA for the MBTA service into RI), or

Amtrak operates the trains between North Station and NH - with NHDOT paying for the service between NH and Boston. (similar to the arrangement used for the Downeaster, where NNEPRA pays Amtrak to run the service and MassDOT contributes nothing towards the cost to run the trains - even though the Downeaster makes stops in MA.)

One variation of this is that instead of NHDOT they could create a rail authority in NH to manage the service like they do in Maine with NNEPRA.
  by Trinnau
 
charlesriverbranch wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:19 am "NHDOT doesn't subsidize Amtrak for the Downeaster".

No, they don't, and neither does Massachusetts. NNEPRA, the agency that hires Amtrak to run it, is an agency of the state of Maine.
To clarify, Massachusetts doesn't provide a cash subsidy, but allows use of MBTA trackage and North Station free of charge. So they do contribute to the service.
  by BandA
 
It would be a bad look for the MBTA to refuse service to NH if NHDOT was willing to pay for it. Plus, Boston Surface Railroad already has a proposal :wink: You could make a case that MA should subsidize most of the operating costs to the state line, i.e. South Nashua to Lowell.
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