Potential for Halifax-Moncton-Saint John?

Would the ridership potential along the Halifax-Moncton-Saint John corridor be sufficient to warrant a study leading to the resurrection of service? What was ridership like before the 1990 cuts? What was the level of service?

downbeat wrote:Would the ridership potential along the Halifax-Moncton-Saint John corridor be sufficient to warrant a study leading to the resurrection of service? What was ridership like before the 1990 cuts? What was the level of service?

There has been much discussion of at least a Moncton-Saint John link, but I doubt it will go anywhere.

Currently the Ocean connects with buses in Moncton for passengers headed to Charlottetown, PEI, or Saint John. From casual observation, these do get quite a few passengers, but we're still only talking one bus. Perhaps some type of powered unit?

I'm not sure what the level of service was on that route prior to the 1990 cuts. I know that from 1990 until maybe 1995 (?) there was the Ocean which, on alternating days, travelled to Montreal through Maine. I'm pretty sure that prior to the 1990 cuts there was at least a "dayliner" service once daily. Please someone correct me, here.

-Chris

Chriskay wrote:

I'm not sure what the level of service was on that route prior to the 1990 cuts. I know that from 1990 until maybe 1995 (?) there was the Ocean which, on alternating days, travelled to Montreal through Maine. I'm pretty sure that prior to the 1990 cuts there was at least a "dayliner" service once daily. Please someone correct me, here.

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Thru service between Saint John and Halifax was started in October 1979 when VIA took over the “Atlantic” from CP and extended it to Halifax. VIA also began a thru RDC “Railiner” on the same route to provide a double-daily service. Prior to that, RDCs running only between Saint John and Moncton connected with the Montreal-Halifax trains in Moncton.

For awhile the Halifax-Saint John RDCs were extended through to Fredericton (This was during the time the “Atlantic” was first cancelled (Nov 1981- June 1985) so the Provincial Capital wouldn’t be cut off without service). Fredericton now had a passenger train again, the first time in 20 years. When the “Atlantic” was originally running and when it was re-launched again in June 1985, it was back to a bus connection only between Fredericton Junction and Fredericton.

Halifax-Saint John lost thru service again with the cancellation of the “Atlantic” for the second time in December 1994.

Halifax to Saint John is all 4-lane (110 km/h) highway including a section of new toll-way in Nova Scotia so the train just wouldn’t be time competitive.

Halifax-Saint John was one of the routes that was to have received an LRC when they were first introduced. A western route was to have received an LRC also but as we know they all went to the Corridor

NS VIA FAN wrote:Halifax to Saint John is all 4-lane (110 km/h) highway including a section of new toll-way in Nova Scotia so the train just wouldn’t be time competitive.

That's the truth. Even Moncton-Halifax, the train takes upwards of five hours versus 2.5 to drive. I think the SMT/Acadian Lines express bus is relatively quick, too, compared to the train.

I believe the Saint John-Moncton route would be more comparable time-wise to driving, as much of the route is parallel to the highway.

NS VIA FAN wrote:Halifax-Saint John was one of the routes that was to have received an LRC when they were first introduced. A western route was to have received an LRC also but as we know they all went to the Corridor

Wow, that would have been nice to see! Too bad.

<b>OT alert:</b> Does anyone have a Via schedule from the early 80's? Or even an old NB passenger rail service from prior? I'd be very interested in what old frequencies used to be.

-Chris

chriskay wrote:<b>OT alert:</b> Does anyone have a Via schedule from the early 80's? Or even an old NB passenger rail service from prior? I'd be very interested in what old frequencies used to be.

-Chris

The Sept. 29, 1980, timetable shows that there was a daily Halifax-Moncton-Saint John RDC service in addition to the daily "Atlantic." The Atlantic departed Halifax at 1120, arrived Moncton at 1620, departed Moncton 1640 and arrived Saint John at 1845. The RDC departed Halifax at 1700, arrived Moncton 2130, departed Moncton 2140 and arrived at Saint John at 2330. The return "Atlantic" left Saint John at 0845, called at Moncton 1045/1105 and arrived Halifax 1555; the RDC left Saint John at 1615, Moncton 1820/1830 and arrived Halifax 2250.

Of interest, on the Halifax -Sydney route, there were two daily round trips with RDC equipment. The travel time averaged 7 1/2 hours.

There was a Moncton-Campbellton RDC, which ran an hour and 40 minutes ahead of the "Ocean" northbound and two hours 50 minutes after the "Ocean" southbound.

Wow, listening to you share that timetable, it brings me back to my childhood about 25 years ago when I remember multiple platforms being used for trains in Moncton. Now there's just the one platform used, with the other two rotting away on the other side.

I also remember usually on Christmas holidays, my family would take a day trip up to Campbellton on the RDC just for fun. I also remember on the return trip, the two cars getting jam-packed with students coming back to school in Moncton from the north shore.

Thanks for the memories. :D

Further to that schedule, do you have a scanned version that you could share with us, possibly? Or a website where I could see it?

-Chris

Hmmm. I also have a very old timetable from 1980 -- this one was valid from Feb. 3 to April 26. I've compiled Atlantic services (excl. Matapedia-Gaspé) onto this Web page:
http://members.fortunecity.com/railpix/ ... -1980.html
Does anyone have a timetable closer to the time of the big cuts in 1990?

Excellent -- thank you for that. It's really quite amazing to see that huge schedule for the region, and then to consider that this has been condensed into one train now. Astonishing, really.

Thanks for taking the time to do that!

-Chris

I've now added the Matapédia-Gaspé train to the schedule, and made a few other corrections that I found since posting the page. I'm glad it will be of use.

I have the 1989 Summer/Fall timetable (effective 30/4). Did you use Excell for the table on your website, downbeat? I'll PM you with an email address of mine in case you do have a formatted table; I'd be glad to fill in the blanks with the '89 times.

MissisquoiValleyRR wrote:I have the 1989 Summer/Fall timetable (effective 30/4). Did you use Excell for the table on your website, downbeat? I'll PM you with an email address of mine in case you do have a formatted table; I'd be glad to fill in the blanks with the '89 times.

It would be great to see that, too!!!

-Chris

Prompted by these inquiries, I finally dug out my old VIA timetable collection (from various different boxes) and it appears I have many large gaps. I recently obtained the first VIA timetable (dated October 31, 1976) and also have some from 1985-1987 and 1992-1996, plus 2000-2002.

I know I had others, including the pre/post-1990 cutback versions, but they're probably lost (thrown out ).

When reviewing them, it's sad that so many routes have fallen by the wayside.

Continuing the discussion on VIA service in the Maritimes:

There were some major cuts on November 15, 1981.

The “Atlantic” was withdrawn between Halifax and Montreal across Maine.

The Moncton-Edmundston RDC was also withdrawn

The Halifax-Saint John RDC’s were extended to Fredericton:
#615 Lv Halifax 0940 Ar Fred 1755. #616 Lv Fred 1415 Ar Halifax 2250

The Ocean remained along with a Moncton-Campbellton RDC.

Gaspe service was still an RDC connection in Matapedia.

And there was still twice daily service between Halifax & Sydney and once daily between Halifax and Yarmouth.

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On May 29, 1983 a new train the“Chaleur” was launched between Montreal and Gaspe.

On June 3, 1984 Sydney-Halifax service changed: One of the RDC runs now originated and terminated in Port Hawkesbury instead of Sydney to provide a sameday return trip to Halifax: Lv Pt. Hawkesbury 0700 Ar Halifax 1111. Lv Halifax 1750 Ar Pt Hawkesbury 2214. On Friday nights it went thru to Sydney Ar. 0045. And on Sundays only Lv Sydney 1450 Ar Halifax 2202.

There were now 4 trains a day each way between Halifax and Truro!

Sydney still had a daily to service Halifax that connected with the Ocean in Truro.

On October 28, 1984 Moncton-Edmundston service was restored running 3 days a week.

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Another restructuring of Maritime service was coming on June 1, 1985 with the re-launch of the “Atlantic”. I’ll dig out that timetable and post those changes shortly.

So you're saying that between the 1981 cuts and the 1985 service being restored to the "Atlantic", that there was only the RDC service to Saint John?

-Chris

Chriskay wrote:

So you're saying that between the 1981 cuts and the 1985 service being restored to the "Atlantic", that there was only the RDC service to Saint John?

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Yes:

One RDC a day each way that was timed to connect with the Ocean in Moncton.

A Saint John to Montreal traveller now left Saint John at 1610, connected to the Ocean in Moncton at 1830 and arrived in Montreal at 0915 the next morning. Eastbound Montreal at 2050, Moncton at 1345 and into Saint John at 1600 the next afternoon. (route length: 740 miles)

Previously the traveller would have left Saint John on the Atlantic at 1905 and arrived in Montreal at 0700 the next morning (473 miles)

Even longer for the Fredericton traveller: Leave at 1415 and into Montreal at 0915 the next morning (now 806 miles) Previously he would have left Fredericton Jct at 2015 and into Montreal at 0700 (429 miles).

In fact, after 8 hours on the train, the traveller was now in Campbellton and farther from Montreal than when he left Fredericton!