Potential for Halifax-Moncton-Saint John?

On June 1, 1985 there were major changes to VIA across the country and several of the services cut in November 1981 were restored:.

In the Maritimes:

The “Atlantic” was back on the CPR route across Maine and became the primary train between Montreal and Halifax. The “Ocean” was cut back to a Montreal-Moncton service only. For the first time ever there was no thru service between Montreal and Halifax on the ”Intercolonial” route via Campbellton. Connections were available in Moncton with the Atlantic: 1 hour w/b and 3 hours e/b.

A note in the timetable indicated that the RDC service would continue to operate between Saint John and Fredericton until Sept 3. But no schedule was given. For the first time in years there was now two train daily (Atlantic + RDC) each way on the CPR between Saint John and Fredericton Junction (about 20 miles from Fredericton) The Atlantic had a bus connection between the Jct and Fredericton.

The Ocean was also combined with the Chaleur west of Matepedia and a new daytime train: the St. Laurent was restored between Mont Joli and Quebec City (Ste Foy).

The other Maritime services remained at the same frequency with some adjustments in times.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The restored Atlantic was only back a short time before people were calling for it to rerouted via Edmundston to avoid crossing the US border. Passengers were switching to the Ocean to escape the hassle from US officials even if they had to change trains and wait a couple of hours in Moncton.

Previously only coach passengers and those getting off in the US were inspected by US Custom and Immigration. Now they insisted everyone would be. Eastbound Sleeping Car passengers were waken at 3amET in Jackman, Maine. Westbound wasn’t as bad: 9pmET (10pmAT) at Vanceboro. The trains were running long and full so there were major delays.

I was in a sleeper from Montreal to Halifax that summer. When they woke us at 3am the Inspector asked me the purpose of my trip. I said I was in the States only because the train was. He asked if I was trying to be “Smart” and said he would be back. Well he must have gotten the same reply from most others as I didn’t see him again. If they had left the passengers alone, they would have gone to sleep in Canada and woke in Canada the next morning, some not even realizing they had been thru the US.

It took a couple of years of negotiations but eventually the train was “Sealed” across the US. Inspectors rode the trains and only checked those getting off in the US.

Anyone boarding in the US were checked by Canada Customs when the trains reached McAdam NB or Megantic, Quebec.

Wonder how things would be handled today if the Atlantic was still running in these post 9-11 times!

I can't even imagine how it would be today. I'm thinking the dept. of Homeland Security requiring the construction of an impact-resistant tunnel all the way from through Maine. :D

-Chris

NS VIA FAN wrote:

It took a couple of years of negotiations but eventually the train was “Sealed” across the US. Inspectors rode the trains and only checked those getting off in the US.

Anyone boarding in the US were checked by Canada Customs when the trains reached McAdam NB or Megantic, Quebec.

Wonder how things would be handled today if the Atlantic was still running in these post 9-11 times!

I remember the largely symbolic sealing of the train. Upon reaching the US border, a US immigration officer and the train's Service Manager would go through the train attaching a flimsy seal to every openable door, including the emergency exit at the rear of the Park car. The serial number of each seal was recorded by the immigration officer. One coach door was left unsealed, so I was told. Upon reaching the Canadian border, the seals were removed. It seemed to me that one firm pull on the door would very easily break the seal. I wonder if anyone ever went though the train deliberately breaking these seals? (I, of course, would never do so, despite the devil inside suggesting a way to liven up the proceedings! Can you imagine the reaction of the immigration service?)

I have a 1985 timetable that includes the Fredericton - St. John RDC service, that was effective June 01 - September 14, 1985. I took several photos of the last train that left Fredericton.

The timetable carded Train # 157 ( ex. Sun. ) leaving St. John @ 1630, arriving F'ton, 1815. Train # 158 ( ex. Sun. ) , departed F'ton 0830, arriving St. John at 1015.

The train's schedule allowed time to spend shopping and easy, convenient access to the downtown St. John area. I took this train on several occasions ...... I noted some of the passenger counts on some trips in my " notebook "....... 22, 40, 65. I believe the RDC capacity was 72.

However, the prime purpose for the train's introduction, was to allow Fredericton passengers to travel to the Canada Summer Games in St. John the summer of 1985.

downbeat wrote:Does anyone have a timetable closer to the time of the big cuts in 1990?

A big thanks to user Roman for providing this table:
http://members.fortunecity.com/railpix/ ... rFall.html

It's the Via Rail Atlantic schedule, April 1989

chriskay wrote:I can't even imagine how it would be today. I'm thinking the dept. of Homeland Security requiring the construction of an impact-resistant tunnel all the way from through Maine. :D

-Chris

Me either it would be a Secerity Night Mare. I would of done if I was Customs I would only Inspected US to Canada or Canada to US not Canada to Canada to save time.

AmtrakFan

VIA had another train similar to the “Atlantic” that crossed the US border than back into Canada. This was a tri-weekly RDC between Winnipeg and Thunder Bay. It entered the US at Warroad, Minnesota then re-entered Canada at Rainy River, Ontario. Train lasted until May 1977.

Off-Topic but Canadian Content:

In the reverse Amtrak had a train running through Canada between two US cities: Buffalo and Detroit. The Empire State Express (later: Niagara Rainbow) was extended to Detroit in 1974 on Penn Central track across southern Ontario. Originally it ran non-stop through Canada but later stops were added at Windsor, St. Thomas and Fort Erie. You could actually buy an Amtrak ticket between two Canadian points. There was a separate coach to handle the Canadian passengers who were inspected when the train entered the US. Don’t know how Canada Customs handled the US passengers.

Prior to Amtrak this was New York Central’s main route from Detroit to Buffalo and on to Boston and New York: Multiple trains a day (some in several sections) and thousands of passengers passing thru Canada between US destinations and probably most people didn’t even realize it. How simple things were pre 9-11 !

And if you go way back to the ‘60s: A CP RDC run between Montreal and Wells River, Vermont (Originally through to Boston) would cross into the US for about 10 miles to serve a couple of Vermont towns then back into Canada for 10 miles to a stop in Quebec then finally back into Vermont. Don’t know how US and Canadian Customs handled this one!