More on "City Rail Concept"

Clearfield wrote: Better to run the Airport Line (or as I call it "SEPTA's Airport PHLyer") between the airport and Suburban as a shuttle. Fix Eastwick Station. 20 Minute headways, no storage issues at Suburban, rare protect needs. Go back to branding the equipment like the Yellow Birds.

Isn't one of the justifications for Airport Line trains to Glenside that they provide increased frequency to close-in stations during rush hour while Doylestown, Warminster, and West Trenton trains are running express service (or at least SEPTA's version of it)?

Also, how would the shuttle operate into Suburban such that the existing cross platform (or same platform face) transfers would be retained and without impacting through services? No one would like the idead of dragging luggage through the concourse level.

Clearfield wrote: Better to run the Airport Line (or as I call it "SEPTA's Airport PHLyer") between the airport and Suburban as a shuttle. Fix Eastwick Station. 20 Minute headways, no storage issues at Suburban, rare protect needs. Go back to branding the equipment like the Yellow Birds.

I could live with this, and use newer equipment on the line (do the new cars have wider aisles? the doors are certainly better suited on the new cars for dragging bags onto the train. how much of the ridership is through vs to/from center city anyways? it also better matches the city rail idea, providing a realiable connection to university city stop. I guess by fixing eastwick you mean build a large garage to accomodate both airport parking and park n ride facilities for commuting to center city?

#5 - Dyre Ave wrote: Might it be better if the Airport Line were to run on its own right-of-way (i.e. an "Airport Subway")?

you could diverge at passyunk and run as an elevated past 76 to reduce costs and cannibalize existing track.

rbreslow wrote:

scotty269 wrote:

rbreslow wrote:
I think an underground right of way is not that much of a problem. Also it could be a short extension just over to the existing Airport line ROW. All they'd have to do is put down third rails and we'd be ready to go.

The closer to the Airport you go, the less stable the ground is. Remember, most of the land West of the Navy Yard is marshland. You could most likely extend to the Navy Yard, but anything more than that would have to be above ground. Also, the Airport line shares it's RoW with freight trains for a short portion. If you put down 3rd rail there, CSX/NS would be limited to only using a certain type of locomotive with it's front plow cut so it doesn't come in contact with the 3rd rail.

Hmmm, could a separate track be build during the freight portion? How far would it be from Pattison (AT&T) to the Airport ROW? If it's doable how about have it under the ROW so it could still be a subway. They could bring it up a little past where freight splits off.

The distance from Pattison to the Airport seems roughly the same distance as from City Hall to Pattison. Throw in a river crossing, and it would be monumentally expensive, even without trying to bury the thing underground. And bury a subway directly underneath a freight line? No way that the owner of the line would allow that sort of disruption.

There is already a perfectly serviceable route to the airport...no need to reinvent the wheel. Just give it a tweak or two.

How did we get to this Airport line discussion when it has nothing to do with the City Rail Concept. I know I have put in a lot but I forgot how we even got here

rbreslow wrote:How did we get to this Airport line discussion when it has nothing to do with the City Rail Concept. I know I have put in a lot but I forgot how we even got here

Sure it does. Probably makes more sense than most as a trial implementation of city rail which is mostly unworkable anyway

Suburban Station wrote:

rbreslow wrote:How did we get to this Airport line discussion when it has nothing to do with the City Rail Concept. I know I have put in a lot but I forgot how we even got here

Sure it does. Probably makes more sense than most as a trial implementation of city rail which is mostly unworkable anyway

Ok, last thing. To make it easier for people on different lines to get to the airport so they would not always have to have the 2-seat ride, all of the septa lines could go to the airport as their destination at least twice a day. I know it would be possible and it would help a lot people get to the airport directly.

rbreslow wrote:Ok, last thing. To make it easier for people on different lines to get to the airport so they would not always have to have the 2-seat ride, all of the septa lines could go to the airport as their destination at least twice a day. I know it would be possible and it would help a lot people get to the airport directly.

Trains from the PRR-side would have more issues accessing the airport. They'd either have to reverse-move at 30th Street or use the lower level. I'm not sure how Amtrak would feel about that.

tgolanos wrote:

rbreslow wrote:Ok, last thing. To make it easier for people on different lines to get to the airport so they would not always have to have the 2-seat ride, all of the septa lines could go to the airport as their destination at least twice a day. I know it would be possible and it would help a lot people get to the airport directly.

Trains from the PRR-side would have more issues accessing the airport. They'd either have to reverse-move at 30th Street or use the lower level. I'm not sure how Amtrak would feel about that.

Hmmm. Well Amtrak maybe would like to operate with septa to have an airport shuttle so people could access their trains from the airport using Amtrak. It would be the Airport shuttle only from the PRR side though. Its just an idea so if its not logical don't get mad.

rbreslow wrote: Ok, last thing. To make it easier for people on different lines to get to the airport so they would not always have to have the 2-seat ride, all of the septa lines could go to the airport as their destination at least twice a day. I know it would be possible and it would help a lot people get to the airport directly.

will just a few frequencies per day be enough to entice people to use it? I'd guess not. you're better off serving a few groups well (ideally the largest ones) than trying to spread yourself too thin). who is the airport line most uesful for?
1) visitors staying in cc
2) people living in cc
3) people with reasonable cab access to one of the major cc stations that also have a septa pass (saves you money to take the train for "free" then a shorter, cheaper cab ride
I can see the logic in keeping it simply airport to suburban (or even airport to Wayne Jct) but I could see the argument that if you have trains every 20 min, one comes from norristown, another from che, and another from glenside/lansdale such that each has one per hour...this also guarantees one train per hour stopping at the fast growing university city station. Obviously if you add another station, such as restoring the green/spring garden station or girard station, you might increase your market a bit more though I'd leave that for later.

I know people who transfer to the airport line from the keystone but one of the selling points for them is that as amtrak customers they can receive help from the red caps (they are older). the main thing about the transfer for them, and for myself, is the frequency. every 30 min is inadequate if you want to have some leeway in your schedule (since anyone flying out of the airport inherently already has another connection to make...their plane)

You're thinking about the regular airline passengers, but in all honesty, more than 80% of the ridership on the Airport Line is people who work either directly at the Airport, work for the Airlines themselves, work in Cargo City/UPS, or at the Airport Business Center and take shuttles. Its part of the reason why the City of Philadelphia and the JARC grants dump so much cash into the line just for the 30 minute rail.

Also consider this: the average airline passenger takes almost two hours from check-in to seat because of security.

Personally I would like to see more PROPERLY MARKETED through trains from the Airport to the Reading Side; if its marked on the schedules both going to and from people will ride it..... whether it being travelers or commuters.