• mu"ing steam locos

  • Discussion of steam locomotives from all manufacturers and railroads
Discussion of steam locomotives from all manufacturers and railroads

Moderators: Typewriters, slide rules

  by Mike Walsh
 
As for the photo of the 261 with Amtrak units...

Most, if not all the 261 trips are coordinated with Amtrak... That is, Amtrak plays a big part in the 261 operations.

4449 when she went to Trainfestival had a diesel because it was Amtrak sponsored. In addition, the 4449 had to travel light over a segment of track that may not have been Amtrak sanctioned, thus the train (with Amtrak power) traveled via the normal Amtrak route that the 4449 could not traverse.

Most of the time we see steam powered excursions, they have Amtrak locos attached because the Amtrak locomotives provide Head end power....

The 1522 Ozark Flyer (final trips) had Amtrak HEP, however the locos were stuck on the end. How this happened -- who knows. Maybe the 1522 organization had some pull over the makeup of the consist.

Sure, one might oppose that steam doesn't need Amtrak power using Union Pacific steamers as an example. However, UP Power Cars 205, 206, or 207 typically travel with the train, providing the power for the train, thus eliminating the need for a power car.

That's all I can think of for the time being.

Mike
  by Steffen
 
Well,
it's not a trick. You easily can couple two steamers together.
In fact of a oil burning locomotive, it's today no buisness to manage it. A watergauge has only several times to be reviewed by eye of a fireman. All other times, in Germany we had 72 hours before this has to be done again, the boiler runs electronically controlled unattended. If all other systems are working correctly, you do not need a fireman. If you run low on water, or the electronic get's disconnected from electrical power, fire is extingushed by shut off the burner immediately.
Electronic controls, how much steam is consumptioned by the engine and andjusts water pumps and fuel burner. Electronic measures water level in Tender and fuel reserve in Tender, also it controls the oil burner and controls the water level in the boiler automatically. That's not a trick.
Also it's simple to control the throttle and the gear, and with a computer programm you can automate this process very easily. Most steam operated power plants require no fireman or engineer anymore.. the electrical grid superviser controls the power plants and their output.

But consider what this means: A lot of electronic at the loco, a lot of additional maintainance work and other recontructions to place the sensors, control units and addition electrical power... This has nothing to do with historical steam operation, but it is possible!

So if you run a double header of get help by a "pusher", historical the engines used whistle signals for communication. Even today it's much more easy to use whistle signals for inter-engineer communications that a walkie talkie, because you still have one hand at throttle or gear and you do not need to talk into a microphone and concentrate on communication.
In Germany most engines had electronics on board, this is for safty reasons. If the train goes to fast beyond a signal point, the engine recieves a magnetical information, which automatically shut the throttle on some locomotives, but in all it imediately forces an emergency brake operation automatically, and you could only get rid of the automatically process after speed has dropped to zero.
So the same process, the throttle control by air cylinders was used on trains, were the engine could not be switched to the other trains end. Here a control car was at the trains end, and the engineer left the locomotive on the last station, got into the control car.
The system used a electrical engines telegraph like on ships. Only by braking actions the engineer could shut the throttle and brake the train. But all engines task ware done by the fireman.
He maintained the fire, and betwen the task, he altered the engine controls in the way, the engine telegraph signalized. He only left the brakes untouched.
So for a double header process, this could be used, but it wasn't used for: Steam with withdrawn before such controlls found wide use. For double header actions, the controls could have mounted on the leading engine, and the engineer at the leading engine could signalize the fireman in the additional engine how to alter the engine controlls...

So this is one of the only "remote controls" I knew, Id on't know how this was in US, in Germany it was used.
But usuelly it was done by whistle signals and even the 'feeling' of the engineers...
But it's possible to develop an electronical systems, to operate steam engines together, if you like and find demand for such systems.

And: I think diesels in steam engines are often to find, because modern airconditioning requires huge additional power. Steam engines do not deliever so much electricial power, to the diesel is within the train, to work as electrical power plant, to power aircondition systems in the cars, as well as entertainment systems, illuminations and maybe the trains board service systems, like kitchen, radio speakers for inter-train communication systems as well as maybe the coffea machine for the staff ;)
So, the additional power is often not for pulling a train, if more for power the much more needed electrical power of the train for the todays comfort.

The UK railroad clubs have often only for those purposes diesel generator cars behind the locomotive. To the steamer does all the pulling power, the diesel does only generate electrical power for comfort and service in the cars behind...
  by Allen Hazen
 
On the "New Haven" forum a question about "push-pull" operation of commuter trains came up. (The application is different, but the basic technology is the same as m.u.: just put the control stand in a control car rather than in a leading locomotive, and the locomotive being remotely controlled need never know it isn't part of a multi-unit lash-up!) "Dutch Railnut," one of the regulars (and evidently, from his past contributions, KNOWLEDGEABLE regulars) at that forum said:
"Push Pull is much older than that, The Lubeck line in Germany had push pull with doubledecker commuter cars before second world war and with steam locomotives.
Servo controlled steam valves and just a fireman on engine."
  by DutchRailnut
 
Do a search on " Lübeck-Büchener-Eisenbahn " and you find this private railway very inovative, most artices are in German , the railroad was absobed by ReichsBahn in 1938.
  by Desertdweller
 
It really was not unusual during the transition era to see steam douleheaded with Diesels (two crews involved). Such was common on UP, and I've seen pictures of steam helpers (both head-end and rear-end) assisting Diesel-hauled passenger trains. ATSF operations over Raton Pass and UP operations over Sherman Hill come to mind.

There are also many pictures available of steam double heading with gas turbine locomotives on the UP. The turbine always ran in the lead, to avoid ingesting cinders.

Les