Trespassing & filming questions

Whenever I take pics, it's hardly ever with the intent of having them published in a magazine (though it would be nice!), but more for my own nostalgia. So it doesn't bother me at all to take them from a safe, ideal location.

Not to go totally off-topic here, but a lot of this stems down to our own definition of "freedom," and being allowed to do whatever we want. Unfortunately more often than not, people believe that freedom should also mean we should be allowed to get away with whatever we want, when in reality it doesn't work that way.

Ken W2KB wrote:

justalurker66 wrote:Standing in the gauge is legitimate at a crossing (as long as the train isn't coming -

In many cases, not. The railroad owns the property at the grade crossing, and the public merely has an easement for passage over that property (over the road and sidewalk, if any). Passage is not standing for the purposes of photography, but rather moving from one side to the other.

Fortunately around here the roads are public and the railroad has been granted an easement to run their tracks through platted roads. Calling in the lawyers and survey crews to accurately define trespass and under what terms passage is granted for the railroad or for people crossing railroad property gets complicated. As I stated in my previous post, if you want to get anal about it no photo could ever be taken.

Perhaps that is the way the more anal rail heads want it ... they have a job where they work in full public view. People can easily see them do their job from legally protected public areas. There are areas that are shielded from the public. There is a line, it is defined by laws not by any rail head or rail fan. If the anal rail head doesn't want to be seen doing their job in public perhaps they should find another job? Safety violations are still safety violations even when no one is looking! If the anal rail fan wants to trespass they should find another hobby.

That being said, mutual respect would be appreciated. Most rail fans are not out to cause a problem and are respectful of the railroads they follow. Most rail employees are polite as long as people are not in an area where no "civilian" should ever be - regardless of purpose - and are behaving themselves. Some railroads have even developed photo policies to bridge the gap between the expectations of both parties.

Don't judge all rail fans based on the very few who are a problem and I won't judge all rail heads based on the very few who are anal.

Agreed?

justalurker66 wrote:I'm probably overly cautious and miss out on shots that I would have taken 10 years ago (before 9-11).

This is exactly how I feel. Back then, my friends and I wouldn’t think twice about crossing the tracks to get a better angle from a service road or dirt pile on the other side. I also think maturity has something to do with it – I’ve grown a lot more respectful of property rights over the years and take care not to trespass in areas that are clearly not intended for the public. Even when watching trains at grade crossings in remote areas, I now park right off the road and try to avoid being on railroad property.

That'S alway depending of the area we want to railfanning on..
I use to go at some place,as the trains crew know me and expect to seeing me at some place,I'm alway near the track to watch trains)
When I want to get some pics over a yard or some retricted place,I walk around the fence and sometime,I have a bridge near by from where I can see.Then,I put a téléphoto obectif on my camera,to be able to get it right..

Here in Montreal,we get a lot of place where we can approach the track pretty close,to get some great pic,without intrusion..

NellsChoo wrote:Ah yes, a topic that keeps rearing its ugly head...

And will continue to do so for some time. Thankfully, people will always want strike a balance, unfortunately the radicals on both sides of the debate hold the cards, it seems, when it comes to public opinion.

NellsChoo wrote:My opinion, if anyone cares, is this: When you trespass on RR property, you are not only breaking the law, but potentially making the future hard for other railfans.

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Agreed mostly [mostly being that part of the "making it harder" part is shared between the trespassers, AS WELL AS those who will lump all photographers into the same group [wrongfully] and assume that because some photographers choose to trespass that most of the RR photography enthusiastic want to do so as well. [or in simpler terms, if some of A = B, than all of B = A, which is not true]].

I always try to find the as many public locations to shoot from as I can before shooting, and use those locations to their maximum potential. Doesn't stop me from the occasional confrontation with somebody curious about what I'm doing, but it [and carrying a memo from the RR I'm photographying/videographing saying there are no rules against it] certainly helps.

That is why you should ALWAYS, IMO of course, scout out the number of locations on public property. For example, Mamaroneck NY's Rochland Ave. overpass. Never shot there until I thought about scouting for good locations that were pubic access. Great view down towards Larchmont, and up towards the Mamaroneck station, and right over the Marval lead too. Plenty of places to point your camera to get unique perspectives as well.

NellsChoo wrote: Say you get nabbed too close to the yard at Deerfield. Or you walked all the way into Hill Yard at Ayer like you own the place. Or you are at Palmer standing on the tracks taking photos of CSX or NECR. You make railfans look bad. The more it happens, the more crews and RR/local police will look dislike us.

And again, I kinda agree, but I still feel that blame should also be placed partially on those who fail to recognize that just because some photographers choose to break the law to continue their hobby doesn't mean everybody does. After all, it is ignorance of many kinds that allows ignorance to spread. That goes for those who choose to break the law to continue their hobby as well.

NellsChoo wrote:As for the legality of "taking any photo of anything", there are things like safety, privacy, and common courtesy to think about.

This, IMO, is where one of the major clashing points occurs between the photographers and non-photographers, though I disagree partially with your example because of the idea that physical privacy doesn't quite exist [or if it does, to an extremely limited degree] in public, it is cool that you show empathy towards others, and I would try to do the same whenever possible.

While those here who follow my material submitted to the Amtrak Forum "have heard it all before' from me, it is no wonder that i put the camera away twenty five years ago; It's just not worth it.

Even if I reside along the BNSF Chicago Sub ('the Racetrack' in railfanese) and as a result the opportunity to watch trains is like the proverbial 'shooting fish in a barrel', one will not find me loitering about RR property (even if I've lived in town for 31 years and know every cop by name). I'll take walks along aptly named Burlington Ave, on a sidewalk that I pay in part to maintain, but I will always be moving, save maybe when a train is actually passing (figure about one every ten minutes).

I must acknowledge, that there has been a slight "back off' from that rigid policy I first stated; for an auto trip last week to Salt Lake City and return, I bought a Sony pocket cam that apparently even takes videos (list $149.95 but Best Buy knocked $50 off because it was Returned Merchandise; salesgirl said a Geek Squad technician checked it out - works just fine). On the journey, I acknowledge taking about three photos of UP 'action' at grade x-ings in Nebraska; also about another half dozen at the observation tower in North Platte (that BETTER be Fair Game; I paid my $6 admission); also one or two of Frontrunner and a Utah Transit "light rail' in Salt Lake, as well as one of the Denver train station taken from 17th St, but I don't think this means I'm back in the game.

But that's it, my days of active railfanning are over.

Even if I reside along the BNSF Chicago Sub ('the Racetrack' in railfanese) and as a result the opportunity to watch trains is like the proverbial 'shooting fish in a barrel', one will not find me loitering about RR property (even if I've lived in town for 31 years and know every cop by name). I'll take walks along aptly named Burlington Ave, on a sidewalk that I pay in part to maintain, but I will always be moving, save maybe when a train is actually passing (figure about one every ten minutes).

Wow... Do you ever have the opportunity to travel abroad and railfan? I'm not sure I could live in a world where there was such paranoia around something as simple as taking pictures from a sidewalk. In 10 years of active railfanning in Canada (mainly Quebec - and on public property), I have never once been questioned by anyone. I routinely get a wave from the crew or a greeting from passers-by, and I once had a policeman offer to take a photo of an excursion train from the middle of the ROW.

trainiac wrote:

Even if I reside along the BNSF Chicago Sub ('the Racetrack' in railfanese) and as a result the opportunity to watch trains is like the proverbial 'shooting fish in a barrel', one will not find me loitering about RR property (even if I've lived in town for 31 years and know every cop by name). I'll take walks along aptly named Burlington Ave, on a sidewalk that I pay in part to maintain, but I will always be moving, save maybe when a train is actually passing (figure about one every ten minutes).

Wow... Do you ever have the opportunity to travel abroad and railfan? I'm not sure I could live in a world where there was such paranoia around something as simple as taking pictures from a sidewalk. In 10 years of active railfanning in Canada (mainly Quebec - and on public property), I have never once been questioned by anyone. I routinely get a wave from the crew or a greeting from passers-by, and I once had a policeman offer to take a photo of an excursion train from the middle of the ROW.

On the other hand, a friend of mine has traveled (a lot and to many places) where it is flat out illegal to photograph railway stations (think some countries in South or Central America).