• FRA Commuter Rail and Light Rail

  • General discussion of passenger rail systems not otherwise covered in the specific forums in this category, including high speed rail.
General discussion of passenger rail systems not otherwise covered in the specific forums in this category, including high speed rail.

Moderators: mtuandrew, gprimr1

  by mtuandrew
 
electricron wrote:
andegold wrote:Could RiverLINE type equipment be used on the NJT Dinky? The line is more or less isolated from the NEC and is not even signaled. Fueling would be an issue as would transfer of equipment back and forth to the RiverLINE for maintenance etc. Could it be ferried/towed between Trenton and Princeton on the NEC or would that not be allowed either? Is there even still a connection in Trenton or would it need to be made further down the line?
I'm not that familiar with NJT and Dinky line. To operate passenger train service anywhere, track signaling will be required. Refueling and minor maintenance could be performed at a spur track near any station. I'm nor sure if an unmanned GTW could be towed by a FRA compliant locomotive on/with other FRA compliant equipment. Heavy maintenance could be performed where Riverline trains are maintained if allowed. As for towing, that mainly depends upon the couplers used, I suppose NJT could buy a FRA compliant locomotive with Riverline style auto-couplers.
I don't know if there are any businesses that ship from the Princeton line - if so, a non-compliant GTW unit is out. At the least, NJT would have to set up another temporal separation system like the RiverLINE uses. Likewise, if someone wanted to run a through passenger train from Princeton to somewhere, for some reason, they'd have to clear the GTWs off their track. There is a connection in Trenton between the Conrail Shared Assets Operations (RiverLINE) line and the Amtrak main, as far as I know. However, units would need to travel via flatcar unless the FRA was willing to grant waivers for back-and-forth travel.

NJ Transit already has catenary set up on the Princeton dinky, it seems like it'd be cheaper to just use a single electric car like they do now. Perhaps a better use of Stadler units would be on the Atlantic City line?
  by andegold
 
There's no freight at all on the Princeton Branch. From what I've read over the past year at the NJT Forum here there are no signals there either. The crew is given written authorization to occupy the line at the beginning of the day and then goes about their business. A problem I hadn't considered is that the Stadler vehicles have low level entry. In Princeton it wouldn't be difficult to get rid of the high level platform but in Princeton Junction it might be. Not impossible, just difficult or at least controversial. Yes, there is wire on the line. They had been running single cars for several years but started running two MU'd singles over a year ago for either the holidays or construction (capacity during the holidays and redundancy during construction when the line was isolated) and haven't stopped yet through many changes of actual equipment.

There is talk in the area of converting the line to BRT altogether which would be a shame and bordering on a crime. Converting it to RiverLINE equipment instead could make it easier to extend the line north to Forrestal Village (the Princeton Running Track is in place as far as the Millstone River) since there would be no need for the added cost or perceived unsightliness of catenary on the new portion and if the ROW is wide enough (I have no idea if it is and doubt it) figure out some way of running south to connect with the RiverLINE in Trenton and provide better local service in Mercer County as a result.

One final thought on converting this line to diesel is there would be no more electrocuted students. I'm sure they'd find some other way to kill themselves but at least it wouldn't be climbing on top of the trains.
  by AgentSkelly
 
Keep in mind too that standard light rail is regulated by the Federal Transit Administration or FTA.
  by electricron
 
From http://www.dartnet.org/connect/boardage ... agenda.pdf

Looks like DART Board Members in a recent Rail Corridor Ad Hoc Negotiation Committee Meeting on 03.08.2010 thinks the FRA may release a report later this month. Here's the relevant text from the meeting:

Mr. Tim McKay, Senior Vice President of Rail Program and Development, spoke to the Committee concerning the current known details of the Regional Rail Vehicle.
Mr. McKay stated Stadler (a rail car manufacturer) has developed and is manufacturing a "couple" of different vehicles. Specifically, Mr. McKay stated he was referring to the Stadlers' "GTW" line of vehicles, those already owned by Austin's CapMetro and contracted by DCTA (Denton County Transit Authority).
Mr. McKay continued that Mr. Wayne Friesner, Vice President of Commuter Rail, was absent from the proceedings due to an engagement with the FRA (Federal Rail Administration) where the differences between Europe's CEM (Crash Energy Management) criteria and the FRA's butt strength criteria would be compared and documented. The hoped for end result of these meetings with the FRA, Mr. McKay said, would be a formal vehicle report which would spell out a "path to compliance" to all interested parties.
Mr. McKay stated that DART hoped to receive the vehicle report by the end of March and that, once received, the criteria spelled out by the FRA would be merged into a performance based specification, already underway, that incorporates 12-14 vehicle attributes that are based on Stadler's GTW vehicle and criteria outlined in the DART Board's Resolution No. 080114 (on file with the Office of Board Support).
So the group's understanding was clear, Chair Noah confirmed that the type of vehicle under discussion comprehends the City of Dallas's position with regard to the futuristic railcar. Councilperson Natinsky thanked Chair Noah for making the distinction and acknowledged that they were, in fact, discussing a LRNT (Light Rail New Technology) vehicle.
Mr. Carlson asked if the Stadler car's wide turning radius, which at one point had all but eliminated the Stadler car as a contender for this project, had been rectified. Mr. McKay replied there are several engineering challenges associated with designing a viable Stadler car, but DART is working with Stadler on the trunk design to restructure the GTW's turning radius. Mr. McKay added that the lack of sharp turns on the Cotton Belt would actually be a boon. Mr. Carlson countered that he was under the impression that the evolving LRNT was supposed to cross all track barriers (i.e.; commuter, freight, and light-rail) and prevent the creation of a "Cotton Belt Only" vehicle. Mr. Gary Thomas, PresidentlExecutive Director, interjected that, initially, the LRNT would be used for regional rail and, at some undetermined time in the far future, the LRNT would probably evolve into the kind vehicle that could travel on all sorts of rail tracks.
Mr. Thomas said limiting the LRNT to Regional Rail performance, at least in the near term, would also provide everyone more time to work out other problems, such as the trunk design (connected to turning radius) and how the LRNT, or any diesel powered vehicle, could safely travel through tunnels.
Mr. McKay went on to summarize that if the FRA vehicle report is received as expected, the agency planned on incorporating the FRA report into the vehicles' specifications along with the vehicle attributes. The next step, he said, would be to launch an industry review with at least four car manufacturers who have been, and will continue to be, intensely interested with the FRA's movements: Stadler, Siemens, Bombardier, and Kinkisharyo. Mr. McKay hastened to assure the Committee that the industry review would not be limited to these companies.

Looks like FRA compliance issues might soon be history for new designs railcars. I wrote might, we still must wait on the FRA report..
  by electricron
 
More news on the new "Alternate" FRA compliant rule making from
http://www.dcta.net/apps/AdminFiles/Get ... Packet.pdf
starting on page 21 of 31.....

Good progress continues to be made toward the development of the FRA Alternate Compliance Guidelines. Truck attachment criteria appears to be the final item that needs further discussions and as such a final sub-task committee has been established to further discuss the car builders position on such criteria. The sub-task committee will meet with FRA engineers to discuss the details of the analysis required for FRA Alternate Vehicle Technology. The FRA will commence the development of the final rule and waiver process for review and the next FRA Railway Safety Advisory Committee (RSAC) meeting is scheduled for May 2010.

Just my opinion that it looks like the FRA has bought onto EN 15227 crash worthiness (crash energy management) rules in principle, if the last item under discussion is how the trucks are attached to the rail cars. This could be good news for both smaller commuter rail agencies and Amtrak for new lighter high speed rail trains.
  by Nasadowsk
 
Wouldn't getting the GTW FRA certified efFectively open it to anywhere in the US?

This isn't unheard of elsewhere - tram train operations took a lot of convincing in Germany to get going...
  by electricron
 
Nasadowsk wrote:Wouldn't getting the GTW FRA certified efFectively open it to anywhere in the US?

This isn't unheard of elsewhere - tram train operations took a lot of convincing in Germany to get going...
That depends upon what conditions Amtrak asks for in the new "alternate" certified rules. For example Amtrak may require positive train controls, train speeds may be limited, density of train traffic (both FRA and Alternate FRA compliant trains) may be limited, and other conditions I could never imagine. I would state if Stadler ever makes "Alternate" FRA compliant GTWs, that's assuming the FRA makes this rule, the GTW and other lightweight trains could potentially be used everywhere, depending upon the conditions of each corridor....
  by goodnightjohnwayne
 
electricron wrote:To operate passenger train service anywhere, track signaling will be required.
This is just not true. Without signaling, there is a 59MPH speed restriction, regardless of the condition of the track.
  by electricron
 
goodnightjohnwayne wrote:Without signaling, there is a 59MPH speed restriction, regardless of the condition of the track.
That's how the rules read today, but not after 2015.

Additionally, CapMetro had to install track signals although the GTW's never exceed 59 mph on CapMetro's tracks, to get FRA waivers to run the non-compliant Stadler GTW trains....

So, signaling is basically required already for regularly schedule commuter train operations. You might get away with tracks without signaling for historic-amusement-museum operations that run less than 60 mph.
  by electricron
 
http://www.dcta.net/apps/AdminFiles/Get ... -22-10.pdf
DCTA staff continues to work with Stadler regarding design and procurement of the DMUs. Good progress continues to be made toward the development of the FRA Alternate Compliance guidelines. Truck attachments criteria appear to have been agreed to by all parties. FRA has commenced the development of the final criteria for Alternate Vehicle Technology. DCTA staff met with FRA officials in Washington D.C. in March to discuss the timeline which appears to be FRA issuance of the DRAFT Criteria in May 2010.
DCTA staff has had two very successful conference calls with Stadler with regard to the desire to partner with Stadler and the FRA to implement this criteria. It appears that Stadller is very interested in working with DCTA and the FRA to accomplish this effort of being the first agency in the USA to implement AVT using crash energy management technology. DCTA staff intend to issue Stadler a notice of potential change to incorporate the AVT criteria upon receipt of the DRAFT from the FRA.

The DRAFT rules should make interesting reading when it comes out in May...
  by electricron
 
Latest DCTA Alternate Vehicle Technology (AVT) push:

http://www.dcta.net/apps/AdminFiles/Get ... Packet.pdf
Just the first few pages are important to this discussion....

FRA pre-releases AVT rules on June 11th.
Amongst the AVT requirements will be meeting new APTA rules for passenger seats.
Stadler and DCTA, at this time, plan to build GTWs that meet all the FRA AVT regulations for mixed use traffic....