Portland, Oregon: TriMet Westside Express Service

wigwagfan wrote:Here's a video I made while riding the WES line a week ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF_y4oHf ... annel_page

At about 1:10, you'll see a video of the 1001 coming into the station (A end first), followed by a picture of the 1002 at the same station (B end first) - a comparison between the two ends of the cars.

There is a picture of the A-end cab, but I never saw the B-end from the inside.

The B-end is interesting. The engineer mentioned to me that its similar to the control cab on Bombardier BiLevel coaches which I guess were supposed to be modeled after a Dash 9.

Did you see in the A-end they have a keyboard and mouse sitting on the dash? I got a kick out of that!

On a side note, the WES on-board crew uses AAR 103. Yes, one of the new AAR narrowband frequencies.

What does the fleet currently consist of? Three powered cars and one trailer? Looking at youtube vids, it seems like a mix of one and two car trains running on the line.

Matt Johnson wrote:What does the fleet currently consist of? Three powered cars and one trailer? Looking at youtube vids, it seems like a mix of one and two car trains running on the line.

Correct. TMTC 1001-1003 (powered), plus TMTC 2001 (trailer).

There is one "set" of a single powered car and a trailer, and two "sets" of single powered cars. Thus at any given point (except of course while initiating or terminating service) there are three trains on the system.

Providing that ridership justifies it, the first step in adding capacity would likely be adding trailers to the two single powered car "sets". This would increase capacity by about 50% over today.

It will be interesting to see where they acquire additional equipment, should expansion occur, in the wake of the CRC liquidation.

I was able to ride aboard the prototype CRC DMU when NJ Transit ran it on the Princeton branch back in 2004. I have also ridden aboard the FRA exempt DMU's on NJ Transit's "RiverLINE" and more recently the "O-Train" in Ottawa. Certainly the heavier DMU seems like overkill for a short distance service like TriMet's, given that the light-rail variety run at similar speeds (NJ Transit's RiverLINE trains top out at 65 or 70 mph). But I understand the crashworthiness requirements, and given that there are likely to be more shared-use commuter lines on existing rights of way in the future, I hope something emerges to fill the CRC DMU niche.

Matt Johnson wrote:It will be interesting to see where they acquire additional equipment, should expansion occur, in the wake of the CRC liquidation.

I was able to ride aboard the prototype CRC DMU when NJ Transit ran it on the Princeton branch back in 2004. I have also ridden aboard the FRA exempt DMU's on NJ Transit's "RiverLINE" and more recently the "O-Train" in Ottawa. Certainly the heavier DMU seems like overkill for a short distance service like TriMet's, given that the light-rail variety run at similar speeds (NJ Transit's RiverLINE trains top out at 65 or 70 mph). But I understand the crashworthiness requirements, and given that there are likely to be more shared-use commuter lines on existing rights of way in the future, I hope something emerges to fill the CRC DMU niche.

Well, I've been told that a CRC DMU can pull up to two Comet cars. So that could be the easy way to expand.

Matt Johnson wrote:It will be interesting to see where they acquire additional equipment, should expansion occur, in the wake of the CRC liquidation.

I know of seven RDCs in Oregon that could be rebuilt to act as trailer coaches with an Operator's cab. Two of them are essentially nothing but shells and sitting in the Portland metro area with nowhere to go. Rebuild the cab ends with full-width Operators' cab at one end and a vestibule on the other end, and cut open an ADA accessible opening in the side of the car.

wigwagfan wrote:I know of seven RDCs in Oregon that could be rebuilt to act as trailer coaches with an Operator's cab. Two of them are essentially nothing but shells and sitting in the Portland metro area with nowhere to go. Rebuild the cab ends with full-width Operators' cab at one end and a vestibule on the other end, and cut open an ADA accessible opening in the side of the car.

I have a vague recollection of RDC's running in some demo or excursion service in Oregon in recent years. Was it on this line?

Well, there was an "excursion" train running from portland to astoria a couple years ago, a imited run summer train call teh lewis and clark exporer, Ithink. I believe it used rdc's.

Also, for along time there was a short excursion train that ran on the oregon coast, possibly run by POTB railroad, that used older rdc units.

Yes, that's it, the Lewis and Clark Explorer! I remember now. Guess that's completely unrelated...

Matt Johnson wrote:I have a vague recollection of RDC's running in some demo or excursion service in Oregon in recent years. Was it on this line?

The Lewis & Clark Excursion Train ran three RDCs between Portland and Astoria on the P&W Astoria Line. They are now in service with the Wallowa Union Railroad as part of their Eagle Cap Train.

The Port of Tillamook Bay owns two RDC-1s which are now in use by the Oregon Coast Scenic Railroad.

The Pacific Northwest Chapter NRHS owns two depowered RDC-9s in storage in Tigard. They haven't been used in years.

Matt Johnson wrote:Yes, that's it, the Lewis and Clark Explorer! I remember now. Guess that's completely unrelated...

Actually, there were a lot of rumors that once the L&C Trains ended, that the cars would migrate to what is now WES.

ODOT owned the cars and was required by the state law that allowed the purchase of the cars to sell them. (The "sale" was basically ODOT giving the Wallowa-Union Railroad Authority a ConnectOregon I Grant...so ODOT sold bonds, gave themselves the money and transferred the RDCs east.)

ODOT owns the WES route south of Tigard as well.

I suppose that just, I don't know, maybe getting more matching DMUs is out of the question since CRM went tits up. I mean, it's not like TriMet acquired their patents or anything or that they're talking to other manufacturers to start production. Because railfans would rather speculate about rumor and innuendo on the Internet about antique RDCs, right?

railohio wrote:I suppose that just, I don't know, maybe getting more matching DMUs is out of the question since CRM went * up.

Nobody said it's out of the question.

railohio wrote:I mean, it's not like TriMet acquired their patents or anything

No, TriMet did not acquire the patents to the DMU design. The designs are part of the liquidation of Colorado Railcar, of which TriMet is essentially a creditor of. Once Colorado Railcar declares bankruptcy (which is all but certain to happen), TriMet will simply get in line behind everyone else to try and collect what they can. TriMet is already considering legal action against Colorado Railcar.

railohio wrote:they're talking to other manufacturers to start production.

And those manufacturers would be...? The fact that TriMet literally handed the contract to Colorado Railcar because there was no other manufacturer capable to build the car, and no other manufacturer bid on the contract, and whoever would build the car would have to acquire the rights to the car design, purchase the tooling, have a manufacturing facility capable of building the car...

railohio wrote:Because railfans would rather speculate about rumor and innuendo on the Internet about antique RDCs, right?

That was the rumor from three years ago, which was at the time a quite credible rumor as ODOT owned the cars, and TriMet was still in the process of determining which car to acquire. I had a TriMet Commuter Rail Project Manager tell me that they did consider using RDCs, but after talking with folks who run the Trinity Railway Express weren't impressed with the reliability of the rebuilt RDCs.

However, I later spoke with an ODOT official who said that the RDCs were not automatically destined to TriMet but the Legislature ordered ODOT to sell the cars at the end of the three year Lewis & Clark Excursion Train service. Now, TriMet could have purchased the cars (I believe the sale price was around $350,000 for the trio but I could be off on the number) and then shipped them off for rebuilding, but TriMet would still need at least two additional cars (which are easily obtainable from other sources).

Apparently given your attitude and disdain towards railfans, maybe you have something insightful from an "insiders" view that you want to share? Because in another forum you seemed to have quite the attitude towards me as being mad that I didn't have a "real train" to photograph.

The fact is, even some local transit supporters AND railfans here locally in the Portland area continue to scratch their head about WES - especially given its relative lack of transit usefulness in the entire region, the price tag, and that now TriMet is slashing service -- and it's no secret that TriMet can no longer use its old argument of "delivering projects on time, and under budget" - because WES was six months late and $48.5 million over budget (over 40%). TriMet could really use the $48.5 million dollars right now but it's now lost money towards one rail line that operates rush hours only.

Due to the Colorado Railcar DMU specific engineering of this route, the ability of replacement equipment from other sources (i.e. Bombardier) is practically non-existent without a specially built design that would have to be built from scratch - this would take at least two years, and cost significantly more than an off-the-shelf design, which could have been employed had TriMet built the service to use conventional Bombardier bi-level equipment (which isn't compatible with ANY station platform, and locomotives cannot run into Beaverton TC).

Most of the locals here are well aware of the construction and design of WES, and the limitations that TriMet engineered into this project. It isn't a railfan bash-fest as is being described, and frankly I don't care if I ever take a picture of the damn thing because I haven't gone railfanning in quite a long time. But when TriMet bus service is being cut (including one very popular northeast Portland bus route) because TriMet made stupid decisions on a choo-choo train, a lot of people are asking why - and why is there no accountability at 17th & Center Street.

In case anyone's still out there, TriMet had its first service interruption, with the two-car trainset pulled out of service account a wiring problem related to "friction damage", and is being rumored to be a "design defect" in at least one local newspaper.

Buses are running the third train's schedule, while the other two powered units have been "inspected and are safe for operation".

TriMet expects that repairs may not be completed before Monday.

apparently it was defective work at CRC... screws/bolts through wiring.

heard there was also a car accident on the tracks which added more delays.

anyhow shuttle buses were out today... the fast 27 minute rail trip from wilsonville to beaverton was supposed to take 55 minutes by shuttle bus except the bus i was on took 75 minutes... a passenger suggested the driver go into the parking lot of hall/nimbus station which wouldnt have been a bad idea except for the tight 90 degree turn required to leave the parking lot which was clearly not designed for a 40 ft bus, had to then back out of the parking lot the full length of it very slowly. fortunately we had a driver that knew how to operate the bus well (plus helpful passengers) because backing a bus in that skinny parking lot is definitely not easy. meanwhile while we are in reverse we see the northbound train enter and leave the station. the one that left wilsonville 30 minutes after we did.

just about all the problems with WES are a result of federal laws, regulations and rules effecting railroads. these federal laws/regulations/rules together have probably done more to set back railroading in the United states than anything else.