Amtrak vs. Low-Fare Airlines

Umblehoon wrote:

ckb wrote: Its not like Southwest can give those cheap fares to and from Logan or Reagan National.

It is true that Southwest Airlines can not fly directly into Dulles international with those low faires. However, other carriers like US Airways can.

The inability of Southwest Airlines to fly directly into Dulles International is not really a problem for that carrier in its attempt to attract short or medium distance passegers who might otherwise use Amtrak . Dulles is simply too far away from anything to be convenient for any but long distance travel. ( The Dulles access road between I 495 and the airport is, itself, 13 miles long, and its junction with I 495 is a significant distance from downtown DC). Southwest is much more of a factor for traffic in and out of BWI ( where there is also an NEC Amtrak Station) as BWI is surprisingly convenient to the DC area, as well as Baltimore, and BWI has long been a Southwest hub.

I will not pretend to understand the intricacies of the NEC.

I will say this: Southwest makes a profit, each and every quarter. They have one of the longest streaks of profitable quarters going in all industry, let alone transportation. They've mastered the issue of ONE TYPE OF EQUIPMENT. They don't use hub and spoke, they go where folks want to/ need to go.

Because of something Mr Norman has posted in the UP forum, I may be relooking my oft-disclaimered small position in UNP. At this time, though, I see no reason on this planet to even worry about my position in SWA. Heck, I may buy another couple of hundred shares next quarter.

Amtak needs to look at SWA for business done right lessons.

John

A new non-scheduled open charter air service is commencing shortly between Bedford, MA and Teterboro, NJ (a bus shuttle or cab ride to midtown Manhattan closer that that from LaGuardia). $199 one way. I'd estimate about gate to gate 1-1/2 hours.

How much do the airlines pay for Air Traffic Control or for security?

Check out "Scamtrak" on this link for additional info. Especially, check out HR5025 with the link indicated to see how fair Congress is with Amtrak.

Umblehoon wrote: It is true that Southwest Airlines can not fly directly into Dulles international with those low faires. However, other carriers like US Airways can.

I disagree. Dulles international is a perfect low cost airport since its a good 45 minute drive from downtown, and doesn;t have the demand of a national. National Airport will never be a low cost airport, since its slot controlled, and its closeness to the city make it the preffered choice of business travellers.

Apples & Oranges, unless we are going to do the old "funding war" discussion again.

apodino wrote:

Umblehoon wrote: It is true that Southwest Airlines can not fly directly into Dulles international with those low faires. However, other carriers like US Airways can.

I disagree. Dulles international is a perfect low cost airport since its a good 45 minute drive from downtown, and doesn;t have the demand of a national. National Airport will never be a low cost airport, since its slot controlled, and its closeness to the city make it the preffered choice of business travellers.

Then you haven't driven the Virginia side of the Beltway ( I 495) anytime between 2:30pm and 7:00pm. National's location makes it a good low cost airport, but it is a very dangerous facility ( remember Air Florida?) The key here, IMHO, is the availability of local transit service so that one doesn't have to drive to the airport. Both National and BWI have this, Dulles does not, though there are proposals to establish some kind of Metrorail service to Dulles.

With regard to the NEC generally, distances along the corridor are short enough that competently managed reasonably priced rail service, Amtrak or otherwise, is a valid alternative to clogging up the air lanes with short haul air service.

Most NEC stations have good transit service, which is what makes my frequent trips from PHL so pleasant. I can catch a bus at the corner of my street that takes me to Center City in about 20 minutes. I then get a SEPTA train from Market East to 30th Street, buy my Amtrak ticket from a QuickTrak machine, and board.

Penn Station New York of course has lots of subway service. Newark has PATH, EWR (Newark Airport) has a monorail to the airport. Trenton has bus service, plus the River Line (a new way for me to get to NYP). Wilmington has both local and long-distance bus service adjacent to the station. Baltimore has trolley and bus service, as does BWI. In Washington, Metro is in Union Station.

For the south end of the NEC, my choice is always the train (unless for some reason I need a car at destination). North of New York, travel times are longer and local transit is less available. As I noted earlier, I won't be taking Acela Express to Boston again anytime soon, not when the choice is between a $79 45-minute flight and a 5-hour (if on time) $156 train.

NellieBly wrote:Most NEC stations have good transit service, which is what makes my frequent trips from PHL so pleasant. I can catch a bus at the corner of my street that takes me to Center City in about 20 minutes. I then get a SEPTA train from Market East to 30th Street, buy my Amtrak ticket from a QuickTrak machine, and board.

Couldn't you get a transfer on your bus then use the MFSE to 30th Street? ( This may be saving "nickles and dimes", but in this day and age, every little bit helps)

Mr Kwok,

Please have the courtesy to post a retraction of the following, as regards unionization of SWA:

My sources are:
June 29, 2004, SWA and TWU Local 556 reach new contract:
http://www.southwest.com/swatakeoff/fa_ ... tions.html

Sept 15, 2004, SWA and the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association concluded by voting a new labor agreement, to wit:
http://www.abcnews.go.com/wire/Business ... _1849.html

SWA is fully unionized, the difference is the Employees, the Management, the Shareholders, and the Customers are one team, and all have a part to play.

John
who holds an IRA position in SWA

Lucius Kwok wrote:Amtrak OTP for June 2004:

<snippage>
Compared to Southwest, Amtrak has two things against it that Southwest doesn't have: a huge pension fund liability, and a unionized workforce which negotiated higher pay when things were good in the 1990's but have been reluctant to take cuts. <snip>

<snip>

SWA has to work with unions, just like Amtrak

John Perkowski

I will retract the wording that implies that Southwest isn't unionized, because I may have based it on less-than-reliable sources, but it still stands that Southwest's relations between management and employees are among the best in the industry.

Southwest Airlines info at CasePlace.org

I agree with Col. Perkowski that Amtrak should copy Southwest Pratices.

AmtrakFan

It's my understanding that the airlines pay for security as part of the rental/user fees for terminals. Air traffic control is paid by federal fuel taxes on the gasoline and jet fuel.

Mr Kwok,

Without hesitation I will agree with your last.

Unions of airlines which are in trouble would do well to emulate the relations of SWA and its unions.

John Perkowski

Disclaimer: I hold an ira position in SWA.