Yet another CSX derailment--Palmyra, NY 4/3/08

spatcher wrote:I have also wondered about this. The same amount of traffic goes over the Garret sub, without the amount of derailments that the old CR side has. While I am sure that the people who came over from CR will kick and scream about this, one only has to look at the where the majority of the derailments have happend.

Keep in mind, the differences in soils. The old Water Level Route, while a superior crossing across the Great Lakes/Mohawk Valley region, was mostly on clay soil VERY close to the water table - there was and still is (in disrepair) elaborate drainages systems, culverts, cribbings and whatnot.

Inland away from the shores of Erie and Ontario, the soil is firmer and thus the roadbed needs less work; there's fewer drainage fixtures to keep clear; no beaver dams to rip out regularly. THAT is why the New Castle sub looks so much better than the former Conrail trackage on approximately the same amount of maintenance.

Yep.................let's put this one to bed. The trains are indeed moving thru Palmyra and across NY again. Sorry, MuddyAxles.......I guess I was asleep at the wheel (or control stand).

If anyone has anything to add, PM me........Thanks!

Thread unlocked for those who still wish to discuss....................Additional comment from member: MSchwiebert-----

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I read this for the first time after it had been "locked off" and wanted to add a comment. One has to keep in mind that much of the former B&O in Western Ohio and Indiana was built on swamp land and has numerous culverts & bridges over the various streams and ditches which were used to drain the swamp.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Black_Swamp
The CSX main traverses this area through Wood, Henry & Defiance Counties in Ohio (From Fostoria to Hicksville). Fortunately, when it was built the B&O had the foresight to elevate the roadbed above the surrounding land by approximately 6-8 feet.

In Eastern Indiana, there are several areas where the CSX main traverses through bogs. For example, the I-69 overpass over the CSX main between Garrett & Auburn faced major maintenance issues for several years, because the structure would settle due to the instability of the soil that it was built upon. Likewise, when CSX constructed the third main between Auburn Jct. and West Garrett they opened up at least one sinkhole that threatned the existing two mains which required several emergency ballast trains to dump into it to keep the existing track from falling into it. These bogs continue westward past Garrett to at least Kimmel or perhaps even Syracuse.

Another item to consider is that the existing trackage that was in place in Ohio & Indiana when CSX re-installed the double track was almost all using the Chessie era standard 122 lb. Rail. This rail has proven to be problematic for several reasons. 1. while it may have been sufficient to carry the tonnage when it was installed (and Chessie made it the 'system standard') in the 1970's it is no longer so. 2. 122 lb. rail is no longer mfg. by anyone so defects that are found have to be replaced by 'used' rail - because there is no new stock to be had. One would think that with the increased tonnage this line has seen in the last 10 years, there would be a rash of derailments on this 'tired' 122 lb rail trackage but (fortunately) it has not happened. (My brother is a track inspector for CSX with territory between Fostoria & Defiance Ohio and he pointed out the issues with the rail to me)

Michael Schwiebert
Perrysburg OH
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Many years ago 127 pound rail was standard on the New York Central.
Replacement took place over a period of years starting either late in the
New York Central or during the Penn Central and Conrail periods.
Noel Weaver

you should havea look at acca yard trackage..SCARY , had one conductor tell me the other night he had to bail off a car cause he really was worried it was gonna turn over. its bad. mushroomed rail, busted ties , lots in a row , not just 1 or two here and there . its only getting worse.

Where's Acca yard ? Do you mean Attica yard ? In all my years of railroading, sorry never heard of Acca.

Acca is the former RF&P yard in Richmond, VA.

FYI, regarding the Palmyra incident. The West bound signal bridge at CP 349 was indeed struck by derailing cars the south side leg was shoved about a foot off of it's foundation. As I have been through the site now a few times, it is obviously drooping toward the south. The signals on the bridge are still active but, maintainance forces have erected ground mast style signals to replace the structure. I appolgize. I had originally reported that the bridge had not been struck but after getting past the site during daylight, I was mistaken.