Red Line Trains

And the same can be said for the Breda 3k when the A Route (Shady Grove Ext) opened in 12/15/84.

Sand Box John wrote:"Love Train"

HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!! ROFLMAO!!!! LOL, I don't think I have ever laughed harder, not even when I saw The 40-Year-Old Virgin for the first time! You're joking, right? Express trains? Hell, when your express trains ever go faster than 50 MPH, that calls for a celebration. WMATA Metro trains consistently run in the 70s MPH. It even reaches EIGHTY sometimes (i.e. between Bethesda and Friendship Heights heading inbound, if you get lucky. It always happens with a CAF train and sometimes with a Rohr train, never with a Breda (I don't like the Bredas that much). My Metro would ROAST your Subway in a race!

I hate to burst your bubble but your comparing metrorail maximum speed to the maximum speed of NYCT express trains is not a logical comparison. There are many variables involved here. The first variable is the maximum civil speed limit, then you have the spacing of stations, station dwell times, rate of acceleration and braking and number of trains per hour being run at a given time. When you calculate up all these variables, the number you end up with is the terminal to terminal average speed. NYCT express train terminal to terminal average speeds are not much different then the terminal to terminal average speeds of metrorail trains which are in the neighborhood of 25 to 32 MPH.

If you would like to do the math, the off peak schedules are posted at www.wmata.com/timetables/rail_timetables.cfm.
The terminal to terminal distances in feet, kilometers and miles can be had at www.chesapeake.net/~cambronj/wmata/distances.htm.

My "bubble" is still intact! (Sorry, bad joke). But the spacing between express stations is roughly the same distance between Metro stations. And Metro is filled with curves. There are two big curves between Bethesda and Friendship Heights. Yet trains still hit eighty sometimes there. A lot of expresses in New York are straight track. Also, the trains per hour is about the same in proportion to length. Headways are actually SHORTER in DC than in New York. So all the factors are quite similar, actually. There is no reason why the Subway can't hit at LEAST 60 on the CPW express, or in some of the East River tunnels, or the Jamaica Bay crossing.

"Love Train"
My "bubble" is still intact! (Sorry, bad joke). But the spacing between express stations is roughly the same distance between Metro stations. And Metro is filled with curves. There are two big curves between Bethesda and Friendship Heights. Yet trains still hit eighty sometimes there. A lot of expresses in New York are straight track. Also, the trains per hour is about the same in proportion to length. Headways are actually SHORTER in DC than in New York. So all the factors are quite similar, actually. There is no reason why the Subway can't hit at LEAST 60 on the CPW express, or in some of the East River tunnels, or the Jamaica Bay crossing.

I am well aware of the station spacing and curves. I walked more the 50% of the system in subway during construction. Your belief that your train was traveling near 80 MPH is not based on reality. The system maximum civil speed limit is 75 MPH on tangent track. Maximum civil speed limits on most but not all curves is below 60 HPH. During a short time in the 1980s the civil speed limit was razed to 80 MPH on selected section of surface tangent track. WMATA lowered those civil speed limit to reduce the ware on the rolling stock. There is also the fact that all of metrorail’s mainline trackage has spiral transitions between tangent and curves as well as generous super elevation (banking) in the curves.

My recollection of riding aboard NYCT, there was the lack of adequate super elevations in the curves and little or no spiral transitions between tangent and curves. Also the junction turnouts on NYCT do not allow for the higher speeds like the junction turnouts on metrorail.

Sand Box John wrote:"Love Train"
My "bubble" is still intact! (Sorry, bad joke). But the spacing between express stations is roughly the same distance between Metro stations. And Metro is filled with curves. There are two big curves between Bethesda and Friendship Heights. Yet trains still hit eighty sometimes there. A lot of expresses in New York are straight track. Also, the trains per hour is about the same in proportion to length. Headways are actually SHORTER in DC than in New York. So all the factors are quite similar, actually. There is no reason why the Subway can't hit at LEAST 60 on the CPW express, or in some of the East River tunnels, or the Jamaica Bay crossing.

I am well aware of the station spacing and curves. I walked more the 50% of the system in subway during construction. Your belief that your train was traveling near 80 MPH is not based on reality. The system maximum civil speed limit is 75 MPH on tangent track. Maximum civil speed limits on most but not all curves is below 60 HPH. During a short time in the 1980s the civil speed limit was razed to 80 MPH on selected section of surface tangent track. WMATA lowered those civil speed limit to reduce the ware on the rolling stock. There is also the fact that all of metrorail’s mainline trackage has spiral transitions between tangent and curves as well as generous super elevation (banking) in the curves.

My recollection of riding aboard NYCT, there was the lack of adequate super elevations in the curves and little or no spiral transitions between tangent and curves. Also the junction turnouts on NYCT do not allow for the higher speeds like the junction turnouts on metrorail.

I suppose I stand corrected. But whatever the max speed limit is, that's how fast the train goes between Bethesda and Friendship Heights!

And my point still stands that NY Subway trains would get pwn3d by DC Metro trains in a race.

"Love Train"

I suppose I stand corrected. But whatever the max speed limit is, that's how fast the train goes between Bethesda and Friendship Heights!

And my point still stands that NY Subway trains would get pwn3d by DC Metro trains in a race.

To make it fair fight. I suggest conducting that race on the same stretch of track using the latest generation of rolling stock. The NYCT car will draw the normal 625 volts from the third rail for their runs and the metrorail cars will draw the normal 750 volts for their runs. I would hazard a guess the elapsed time would be pretty close.

Now if one were to race a set Rohr cars as they were prior to conversion to AC traction to a similar set of NYCT R44 or R46 cars of that same era, the elapsed time of the Rohr cars would be quicker then the R44 or R46 cars. The edge for top cruising speed would be a lot closer then you might think. The R44 or R46 and the Rohr cars of that era were capable of speeds in high 80 MPH range.

According to WMATA's web-site the maximum speed of the fleet is 59 mph. I alway thought they went faster down the middle of I-66 on the Orange (?) line, but I guess it's an illusion. You can find that under the topic "About Metro", "Metro Facts".

"Head-end View"
According to WMATA's web-site the maximum speed of the fleet is 59 mph. I alway thought they went faster down the middle of I-66 on the Orange (?) line, but I guess it's an illusion. You can find that under the topic "About Metro", "Metro Facts".

The maximum speed as advertised in the metrofacts.pdf is not the actual maximum speed that trains are sometimes operated at.

A great deal of the railroad has maximum civil speed limits well over 60 MPH and high as 80 MPH. Depending on time of day and scheduling correction requirements trains are operated at speeds greater then the advertised 59 MPH maximum speed.

If you look over Volume IV Chapter 3 Plan and Profile (54.4 MB) and Chapter 4 Curve Tables (12.5 MB) in the FEIS of the Tysons, Dulles, Loudon County N Route Silver line project you will find lots of trackage labeled at 60 MPH and up. Most of the tangent segment have a civil speed limit of 75 MPH, some are as high as 80 MPH.

I don't know why the Red and the Orange have most of the Rohrs and Original Bredas. Most of the Breda Rehabs are on the Blue and Yellow lines and most of the Caf's and Alstoms are on the Green line. I want the Alstoms on the Red and Orange lines. I will really hate metro if they put 75% or more Alstoms on the Green Line and if the Red line is the last line to get the new cars(Alstoms) again.