M3/M7 Track 7/8 Make inpact at Jamaica

I just heard on Ch 7 news that M3/M7 Track 7/8 Make inpact at Jamaica, the fist crossover east of tracks 7/8. M3 being prematurly retired 9773/6(?) Is did see the #s from the chopper cam does any one know which M7 made took the hit?

Thursday, April 6, 2006 8:35 AM

At this time, all eastbound service through Jamaica is temporarily suspended due to the 7:49 AM train (arr. Babylon 8:47) striking the 7:50 AM train from Flatbush Avenue (arr. Hempstead 8:38) just east of Jamaica Station. Westbound service is not being affected at this time.

Above Quoted from MTA www

As we discussed in the "accidend teting thread" the M1/3 Carbody got damaged. I was able to see the fron folded in on its self most likely beond repair. as for the M7 I don't know of it's damage.

let's juts hope everyone is ok, but from the looks of ir any one in the FRW area/seats of that M1 are going to be beeten up. and same for thoes on the M7 in the care end that got damaged.

Clem/Tom, What's the next set of missmatched M7? or M7 pair OOS?

Yes - it appears as though the front of the M7 made contact with the front of the M3 - essentially "peeling" the front end of the M3 off as the M7 passed by.

It'll be interesting to find out what exactly happened - it's rare on the LIRR that revenue trains make contact with each other.

I can hardly decipher your post.

I just came back from the HSF after attending class this morning. They had just brought in the equipment that were involved in the accident, and got a chance to get up close to see the damage. Unfortunately, my camera phone wasn't working right. The damage to the off cab side of the lead M-3 was severe with a clean cut through that allows you to look into the interior of the car. A total of 4 M-7 cars were damaged with side swipe damage, scrapes and sever damage to the electrical components underneath. Overall, the sides of the M-7's did well in holding the impact as neither car had been punctured or ripped. I didn't get the car numbers, but all four were in the mid 7400 series, so they were fairly new on the property. The M-3 might have recieved enough damage to be scrapped, but the M-7's are all fixable. I don't know what can be done to eliminate the scrapes from the sides, all the components underneath are all replaceable. It was very fortunate that no one was seriously injured in the accident.

I'm not going to get into what the cause was, cause rumors fly around with little correct information. Of course, channel 12 already has it's hands on it, and as the media does best, blows things out of reality. Already they were just saying how the LIRR has not answered them as to what happended to the safety signals and the automatic system that's suppose to stop the train? As you can see, they have little knowledge of our system. For those of us who know how the system works, know that a low speed impact is not impossible and not entirely preventive, especially with speeds under 15 MPH. Another thing to bring up, trains do not stop on the dime, so if the engineer saw that he was going to hit the other train, I doubt that he would be able to stop in time before making impact. The distance from the east end of track 7 and 8 is very tight, with little distance to spare. We'll know the facts later on.

Overall, the sides of the M-7's did well in holding the impact as neither car had been punctured or ripped.

It should, its a rolling bank vault on trucks. Don't forget that at 140,000lbs its signifigantly heavier.

Hey Mark777, well stated and nice to see that you did not speculate on things. Too much of that goes on in this forum, and usually by people who know little about what they are speaking of. As a fellow LIRR'er, nice reporting and keep up the good work!

de402 wrote:

Overall, the sides of the M-7's did well in holding the impact as neither car had been punctured or ripped.

It should, its a rolling bank vault on trucks. Don't forget that at 140,000lbs its signifigantly heavier.

really wow from exterior views I would assume the M1/3s was heavier.

Hope nobody get seriously injuried today, just hope I dont get called in to investigate this also .....

I have yet to see the cars, but from what I've heard, Mark777's assessment is a good one.
M-3 9776's future will be monitored.

As far as car weights:

M-1 approx. 93,000 lbs.
M-3 approx. 110,000 lbs.
M-7 approx. 125,000 lbs.

Tom

As usual, the comments by some of the buffoons on TV was entertaining.

Two LIRR Trains Hit, One Injury Reported


NEW YORK (1010 WINS) -- 11:58 a.m. UPDATE: The Long Island Rail Road says it is back on or close to schedule.

The Long Island Rail Road reports two trains hit each other Thursday morning causing the suspension of some eastboound service east of Jamaica Station. Westbound service into the city was not affected. LIRR spokesman Brian Dolan says one passenger suffered a minor injury.

Dolan said the 7:49 from Penn Station due in Babylon at 8:47 hit the 7:50 from Flatbush Avenue heading to Hempstead at 8:38. The accident was just east of Jamaica Station at 8:15 this morning.

Photo provided by WNBC-TV.

http://www.1010wins.com/pages/22411.php

Looking at the pic it is clear that the accident was not a sideswipe as inferred in earlier stories but a full collision. Did somebody run a signal?

Engineer may be to blame in LIRR train crash

BY SAMUEL BRUCHEY
Newsday Staff Writer

April 7, 2006

A two-train collision yesterday near Jamaica station that snarled service throughout the morning and may have injured one passenger was likely caused by a locomotive engineer who ignored a signal to stop, Long Island Rail Road officials said.

"Our preliminary investigation has indicated that the signal system is functioning as designed," according to a statement released by the LIRR. "We are continuing to test and monitor the signal system. We are now examining human error as a possible cause."

The accident occurred at 8:15 a.m. as two eastbound trains left Jamaica station at the same time, LIRR spokesman Brian Dolan said.

On track seven, the 7:50 a.m. train from Brooklyn to Hempstead carried 270 passengers. On the opposite side of platform E, the 7:49 a.m. train from Penn Station to Babylon left on track eight carrying 170 commuters, Dolan said.

Because the two tracks merge 200 feet east of the station, the locomotive engineer of the Babylon train is required to wait for the Hempstead train to safely leave the station.

Yesterday, the Babylon train didn't wait, Dolan said.

With both trains traveling less than 15 miles per hour, the Babylon train struck the back of the Hempstead train's front car, Dolan said.

"They had just closed the doors and we were pulling out of the station when I heard this giant rattle and rumble," said Victor Maldonado, 33, of Hoboken, N.J., who was riding the Babylon train on his way to work at Globe Photos, Inc. in Babylon. "It was the sound of metal crushing and then the train buckled and stopped."

The impact caused the wheels of the Babylon train's front car to separate about six inches from the tracks, Dolan said.

The collision was not so violent as to knock anyone from their seats, although some passengers seemed confused about what had happened, Maldonado said.

Eastbound service was halted for about 45 minutes after the crash. Delays continued in both directions throughout the morning. Normal service resumed by midafternoon.

A 29-year-old woman from Jackson Heights complained of lower back pain after the crash and walked to Mary Immaculate Hospital in Jamaica.

Locomotive engineers are required to follow light signals displayed on a device located on every track just east of each station.

Prior to the accident, the device on track seven showed two white lights, one on top of the other, meaning "slow clear," Dolan said. On track eight, it showed two white lights next to each other, meaning "stop."

Both locomotive engineers were questioned by Metropolitan Transportation Authority police and tested for alcohol and drugs, Dolan said. The results will not be available for at least a week. Testing of the signaling system also will continue for 24 hours, as per federal regulations, Dolan said.

From her seat inside one of the Babylon train's middle cars, the collision felt more like an abrupt stop, said Miriam Laguerre, 27, of Ozone Park, who was on her way to Babylon, where she works at a home care agency.

Laguerre said everyone remained calm.

"They were all just mad because we were all late for work," she said.

Staff writers Wil Cruz and Denise Bonilla contributed to this story.
Copyright 2006 Newsday Inc.

Just thought I would post this. Obviously Newsday is placing blame to quickly. I'm sure it will take some time for them to figure out what happened. But I thought this article had some information worth posting.

The article on Newsday's site links to a photo which makes it difficult to spot a cause.

Yeah, the comment "engineer might be to blame" is somewhat misleading (I can see where they got it. If the LIRR says signals were working, then that's the easy presumption) and certainly too early in the investigation to verify.

It's not like the engineer of the Babylon train couldn't see what was in front of him.

Should be interesting as to what the cause really was. Luckily there were no serious injuries.

At the risk of being locked out or censored, I must comment on a trip to Babylon about a year of so ago. I was watching out the railfan's window and was able to hear the engineer constantly chatting on her cell phone during the entire trip. (The fact that it was a woman has nothing to do with it, by the way). She took several phone calls during the trip. Such a distraction has to be illegal in the operating rules; there are already so many distractions! Eastbound in the morning, sunlight glinting off rails and other shiny objects or directly into an engineer's eyes, could cause a problem. White light signals without a large enough black background during intense daylight could be another. Other train personell, even damned railfans, talking to the engineer is another. Attention by detail is so important to an engineer that sometime or another something is bound to go wrong. But cell phones should be banned in the cab just like radio's are.

Most railroads it is prohibited to use Cell Phones on moving locomotives/trains, Its however rediculous to have a railroad radio in cab and to answer that but not the telephone, I will not take personal calls when running but do use my phone for railroad use.
The railroads are hypocrites on rules, radio's are for certain things but its ok to distract me to ask me to contact train personel cause some brain dead commuter forgot his bag/laptop/cellphone etc you fill in blanks.

Use of cell phones is specificially prohibited in the LIRR rulebook. There was a crackdown over the past year, and the union has warned its members that if caught, it will be hard to defend them.

Jay