Horns- Rehash

In the previous incarnation of RR.net, I brought up a qustion about horns on the Comets and ALPs. Well, perusing around the BLE sight, I found this:

Horns:
It was mentioned that the "Montclair" horns had been so over modified that there was not enough air volume through the system on some ALPs to activate to bell when the horns were blown. Also, the volume of air through the horns drops off so slowly that a Rule 19B could not be blown for grade crossing because the individual blows overlap. We know we work for a company which is extremely sensitive to political (read community) pressure but there are times when, even though a crossing has bells, lights, and gates, the only thing between you and the death of a trespasser or vehicle occupant is the volume of the air horns on your engine. The company obviously doesn't understand this but all engineers do. We want our horns back with the proper volume and control returned to the engineer. No amount of political correctness or community appeasement will soothe the conscience of an engineer that kills someone because the horn was not loud or distinct enough to be heard over a car stereo. This will be looked into and the horn problems, hopefully, will be corrected.

I find this very interesting. I gather from this then that some or all of the ALP44's horns were originally louder as well as some or all of the 46s. And that "drop off" effect is very noticeble on the 44s, 46s and the Comet Vs (except 6004 and possibly others.) It seems like for the most part, diesel trains remain uneffected though because they are still loud as heck and have no drop off. Haha, take that Montclairians! Also, most of the Comet 4s and 3s seem to have their "original volume setting" and don't experience that drop off effect. This does seem to be a real problem. I have heard quite a few ALP horns (both 44 and 46) that truly sound like a dying cow and really do little or nothing to alert people (4400 comes to mind.) The Comet Vs for the most part seem to be OK except for the drop off effect. Comments? Corrections? Snide remarks?

And also, what is "Montclair horns"? The whole fleet?

Here's the url:
http://www.ble272.org/Ergo_Committee_Meeting4.htm

Just a guess but the term 'Montclair Horns' may relate to the local ordinance/law that prohibits trains from blowing horns in Montclair, Glen Ridge and Bloomfield between 7 p.m. and 7 a.m..

This dates back to Erie-Lackawanna days.

^Not a bad guess, but it doesn't look like that is what they are talking about. They mention that the 'Montclair Horns" have been so modified that there is not enough air volume through the system.... etc. My point is that you can't just modify the air on the ALPs just for the Montclair line as the equipment jumps around.

you can't modify horns without getting the FRA involved. the minimum horn strenght is a Horn requirement and is near pain level 100 feet from locomotive:

PART 229--RAILROAD LOCOMOTIVE SAFETY STANDARDS--Table of Contents

Subpart C--Safety Requirements

Sec. 229.129 Audible warning device.

(a) After August 31, 1980, each lead locomotive shall be provided
with an audible warning device that produces a minimum sound level of
96db(A) at 100 feet forward of the locomotive in its direction of
travel. The device shall be arranged so that it can be conveniently
operated from the engineer's normal position in the cab.
(b) Measurement of the sound level shall be made using a sound level
meter conforming, at a minimum, to the requirements of ANSI S1.4-1971,
Type 2, and set to an A-weighted slow response. While the locomotive is
on level tangent track, the microphone shall be positioned 4 feet above
the ground at the center line of the track, and shall be oriented with
respect to the sound source in accordance with the manufacturer's
recommendations.
(c) A 4dB(A) measurement tolerance is allowable for a given
measurement.

Some of the horns are not even near pain at 10 feet let alone 100.

Now, the horns on the diesel engines and Amtrak's AEM7s, now that's a horn! Wheww!

Thats why engines carry a report form, to report defects like that.
If they keep reporting the horn as not sufficient and njt is not fixing the reported horns, the next person surviving a hit at crossing will be a millionair. plus the entire thing could save an engineer from a liability suit.

DutchRailnut wrote:Thats why engines carry a report form, to report defects like that.
If they keep reporting the horn as not sufficient and njt is not fixing the reported horns, the next person surviving a hit at crossing will be a millionair. plus the entire thing could save an engineer from a liability suit.

But if the person is tresspassing, could he still sue even though he is tresspassing?

It is unfortunate that there are a good number of horns out there that are below regulation levels and not much gets done to fix it.

yes if person survives he or she or family could sue claiming any excuse for why he/she was on rail, pushed/shoved/no tresspassing signs/no fence/etc and tel court that the engineer was not blowing horn sufficiently. in return the railroad will state that they did not force the engineer to take that equipment and he did not report it to proper authorities.

Unlike New York, New Jersey precludes the engineer from being individually sued, as he was acting as an agent of the carrier. This law has been in effect for over two years, due to the efforts of the BLE Legislative Board.

Has ACRES made the effort?

not that I know off but ACRE does not tell me much as I still have one foot in BLE other in ACRE

TR-00 wrote:Unlike New York, New Jersey precludes the engineer from being individually sued, as he was acting as an agent of the carrier. This law has been in effect for over two years, due to the efforts of the BLE Legislative Board.

Well that is a good thing. Sue NJT for being negligent. Maybe they'll learn.

I love to hear the sound of a train horn.

New Jersey Transit, COME BLOW YOUR HORN

Norb wrote:I love to hear the sound of a train horn.

Yeah, it is a beautiful thing. Whether I'm in New Brunswick, visiting my grandma in Perth Amboy or at home in Berkeley Heights, there's nothing like the sound of a train and its horn.

I live within a mile or two of the Amboy Secondary and service has been steadily increasing on the line (to the point where gates are being added to certain grade crossings). As a result...more horns! Other people in the neighborhood complain about the noise and how its so prevalent, but I enjoy it.

Last night was one of the rare nights that I could hear horns on the NEC. The Amtrak horns were much louder than the NJT horns.