MNR Observations

Wanted to create an actual thread for general observations, rambles, and complaints on Metro-North loads and on-time performance, made possible by https://radar.mta.info/loading.

As it stands, the busiest part of the evening rush is the 4 to 5 PM departures, especially on the New Haven line, which has multiple large commuter hubs along it. MNR has resumed running ten-car sets on the line, but only appears to have two of them. One is on 1373 and will likely turn around on 1270. The other ran on 1538 and is currently sitting in New Haven. It ran with about 500 passengers - a good load, but one that's fine with an 8 car set. Meanwhile, 1542 ran at over 100% full (somewhat due to the Yankee game that ended at 3:15) with a large contingent getting on at Stamford. 1546 has 690 passengers on an 8 car set. From an operational perspective, those ten car sets need to be used on the most jam-packed early rush runs - something MNR and the LIRR simply do not seem to do.


Also, train #4839 is not on the schedule, but ran the full GCT-Poughkeepsie, with a good load getting on at both Yankee and Grand Central. Not sure if it's a Yankee special (usually those have a 7XXX number).

I'm on 3542 and it's the busiest I've ever seen it, with each passing week seeing more and more customers. Most seats are filled.

Side note, MNR recorded their busiest day since the start of the pandemic yesterday - 205,000 passengers. Today is probably even more crowded - both radar and personal observation indicate crowds just as bad as pre-Covid. The main difference is that while the 4 to 5 pm hour is bad, trains after 6 PM go out 20% full.

4839 was an one-day only extra train from the yard, probably only due to the uniqueness of ending at the top of rush hour.

3:43 GCT
3:53 125th
3:57 Yankee
4:29 Croton
4:59 Beacon
5:07 New Hamburg
5:23 POK

I've been taking plenty of notes from the radar site.

I happened to be waiting for a New Canaan train when the "Super Express" 3542 that got to Stamford at 1703. The platform was full. Some of the other 35xx runs I don't think are as patronized, but they're not exactly hurting, either. All trains are "R" only at both Stamford and Bridgeport.

Very eye-opening were the maxi-bombs out of Wassaic in the AM rush. A seven-car diesel set is a complete waste in my opinion as the passenger counts north of Southeast is sparse; not enough to fill a single coach; I've got the numbers somewhere. I realize they make stops to Golden Bridge so they're much fuller for the run down to WP and GCT, but it's a waste to run them all the way from Wassaic. This is where a single or double DMU set would come in handy, and just transfer to M7A's at Southeast, and run the remainder of the trip down to GB, WP, and GCT.

The same could be said about most of the Danbury maxi's as well. I have to check again, but only one of them seemed to be worth a maxi. Most could do with a mini or two-car DMU, and transfer at SoNo. The Waterbury branch runs with mini's anyway.

Until they decide they want to use DMU's, they can cut down the size of the maxi's to mini's and just truncate them at Southeast and SoNo. That would save some wear and tear, and maybe even allow for some retirements of the older Bomb coaches. Here's hoping MNRR doesn't just get the Charger engines, but the full Airo sets.

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 11:44 am they can cut down the size of the maxi's to mini's and just truncate them at Southeast and SoNo.

Because nobody wants a one-seat ride.

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 11:44 am I've been taking plenty of notes from the radar site.

I happened to be waiting for a New Canaan train when the "Super Express" 3542 that got to Stamford at 1703. The platform was full. Some of the other 35xx runs I don't think are as patronized, but they're not exactly hurting, either. All trains are "R" only at both Stamford and Bridgeport.

Very eye-opening were the maxi-bombs out of Wassaic in the AM rush. A seven-car diesel set is a complete waste in my opinion as the passenger counts north of Southeast is sparse; not enough to fill a single coach; I've got the numbers somewhere. I realize they make stops to Golden Bridge so they're much fuller for the run down to WP and GCT, but it's a waste to run them all the way from Wassaic. This is where a single or double DMU set would come in handy, and just transfer to M7A's at Southeast, and run the remainder of the trip down to GB, WP, and GCT.

The same could be said about most of the Danbury maxi's as well. I have to check again, but only one of them seemed to be worth a maxi. Most could do with a mini or two-car DMU, and transfer at SoNo. The Waterbury branch runs with mini's anyway.

Until they decide they want to use DMU's, they can cut down the size of the maxi's to mini's and just truncate them at Southeast and SoNo. That would save some wear and tear, and maybe even allow for some retirements of the older Bomb coaches. Here's hoping MNRR doesn't just get the Charger engines, but the full Airo sets.

On Danbury:
-1882 gets a pitiful load, 70ish people tops, coming onto the branch. That is a maxi set. The other ones at least get heavy ridership between Noroton and SoNo, but not 1882. They'd be better off replacing that with a mini-bomb connecting to 1582 and adding something that makes stops from Greenwich to Bridgeport. Then you could make 1582 an express, stopping at Stamford, SoNo, and Fairfield to New Haven. 1582 generally gets a good load.
-The fact that 1844 doesn't have a GCT connection is absurd. Extend it to GCT, and it'll have a better load coming onto the branch than 1860.
-1848 should stop at Stamford. No idea why it doesn't - platform usage isn't an issue, since nothing stops at Stamford between 6:01 and 6:09 - 1848 would be approximately 6:04.

On Wassaic:
-Those trains might as well run through and serve as expresses. A minibomb wouldn't be able to run back up the line until after the rush, so logistically it makes sense to have them be thru runs that get decent enough ridership from Southeast to Goldens Bridge, instead of sitting in Southeast.

mkm4 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 1:16 pm

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 11:44 am they can cut down the size of the maxi's to mini's and just truncate them at Southeast and SoNo.

Because nobody wants a one-seat ride.

That’s a fair point. Nevertheless for a couple dozen people to have to cross-platform transfer to save a full maxi?

Traingeek3629 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 2:04 pm On Wassaic:
-Those trains might as well run through and serve as expresses. A minibomb wouldn't be able to run back up the line until after the rush, so logistically it makes sense to have them be thru runs that get decent enough ridership from Southeast to Goldens Bridge, instead of sitting in Southeast.

I think they deadhead three maxi’s to Wassaic in the morning, or four? They have meets at Patterson and HV-Wingdale. They could be turned easy enough. The maxi’s just become mini’s, you don’t need mini’s.

They deadhead? Only two thru trains run, and I was under the impression that they came up on the evening Wassaic runs, then did a shuttle round trip, and sat in Wassaic overnight. The yard there is fenced in with a crew base.

Currently (and note that rush hour friday ridership is ~25% less, and trends earlier):

Wassaic Shuttle 4949 has 140 people between Patterson and Pawling
Danbury Thru 1860 has 105 people out of Grand Central (pitiful, even compared to its typical 150-160) on a maxibomb
Danbury Shuttle 1844 (the one without a convenient GCT connection) has only 15 people going north of Branchville.
Southbound Danbury Shuttle 1881 has 130 passengers (reverse commute from Merritt 7?) going southbound into SoNo - a surprisingly good load.
Waterbury Shuttle 1942 has 100 people, next stop Seymour (another very good WBL load)

I wonder if the Waterbury Line's ridership has surpassed that of Danbury Line.

How sad to see the Upper Harlem passenger numbers be so abysmal. I think the doomed Chatham trains under PC in early 1972 had better numbers

I’d bet that many who used to take the train to/from the city and the Upper Harlem north of Brewster either opted to work from home permanently or moved out of NY state altogether during the past 3 years.

Btw the maxis *deadhead* from Southeast?? The whole point of the 4-track Wassaic yard -let alone the extension from Dover Plains itself- was because the Brewster yard was at capacity at that time and it cost time and money to deadhead the sets north each morning and back each night.

NH2060 wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 3:00 pm How sad to see the Upper Harlem passenger numbers be so abysmal. I think the doomed Chatham trains under PC in early 1972 had better numbers

I’d bet that many who used to take the train to/from the city and the Upper Harlem north of Brewster either opted to work from home permanently or moved out of NY state altogether during the past 3 years.

Btw the maxis *deadhead* from Southeast?? The whole point of the 4-track Wassaic yard -let alone the extension from Dover Plains itself- was because the Brewster yard was at capacity at that time and it cost time and money to deadhead the sets north each morning and back each night.

Ridership is strong on the weekends for hikers/tourism. Right now, 320 people are on southbound Harlem Line #9642 (from Wassaic/Southeast) and another 185 are on #9950, the southbound Wassaic shuttle - and that's not even at Wingdale yet. And the two active southbound Hudson line trains are the busiest in the MNR/LIRR system.

I think that if patterns already observed about the pandemic recovery hold true, Friday-Sunday trains will be busier than Monday-Thursday trains.

First 10-car M7 set I've seen since the pandemic. They're currently using it on #557, an express that makes Scarsdale, Hartsdale, White Plains, and North White Plains. 740 passengers - a good sign that more and more white-collar workers are returning. Update: About half got off at Scarsdale. And 559, which runs 20 minutes behind that and makes the same stops, has a respectable load of 410 on a 6-car. 655, the 5:27 express with first stop Chappaqua, has a load of 460. I'm curious to see if the trend of VERY concentrated ridership (as in, heavy from 4:45 to 5:45, and drops off fast on both side) is stronger on the Harlem - past observations seem to indicate that it is, but I haven't had time to watch closely.

Some other notes:

1458, which makes only Stamford-South Norwalk, has a load of 535 - a very similar run to #557, and one that's gotten much more popular in the last few weeks. 1848 to Danbury had a load of 580, and I'll be curious to see how many continue onto the branch. 1860, which is Stamford, SoNo, then the branch, has 305 - again, let's see how many stay on for the branch. I mention all this because in an era where Lamont wants to cut service, I question why the DBL deserves all these thru trains that have low utilization.

Metro-North runs a six car set for the weeknight inbound Yankee Clipper - totally inadequate when one direct train serves the entire line. I went last night and thankfully my group was able to get seats at Fairfield Metro, but it got very crowded after that. Radar said we had a load of about 85-90%, which I suspect was higher in actuality - my car supposedly had 81 people in it, but almost all seats (yes, even the middles) were taken and lots people were in both vestibules. I wonder if the lack of luggage meant that the weight of the car was lower, leading the system to believe that we had fewer people than we did.

An 8 car train on the return was perfect, although this wasa weeknight game with about 40k in attendance. Although almost every seat was filled, there were few standees, and radar gave us a load of 520. Tonight's load is 660, much more crowded, but at least it's an 8 car set. The Hudson Line local to Croton had a load of 750 (probably more, as I explained) on a 6-car set tonight, which I'm sure was a blast.

It's remarkable how much faster the return was than the trip down there. Yada yada too much padding.

I was eavesdropping on a group behind me (part from Greenwich and part from Fairfield) as they struggled with the lackluster information given by the TrainTime app and the MTA on how to get home. Eventually, they surmised that trains leave based on the end of the game, but were still confused about what stops the train made and if they could take one train together, if they had to transfer at Stamford, etc. MTA needs to improve communication, because it should not be that difficult for an average fan to figure out how the whole operation works.

Back when the Yankee Clipper service started in 2009, we designed a printed timetable that clearly explained and showed how service to and from the games works, for each game start time. A PDF of the timetable was posted on the web site for those who didn’t have access to the printed version. Back then the trip planner function didn’t handle the Yankees service very well.

After I retired (probably when the pandemic started), printed timetables went the way of the dodo. Now the only way to get schedules for trains to Yankee Stadium is with the trip planner, and it sucks. It doesn’t explain anything other than a departure and arrival time…which, as we know, doesn’t work at all for post-game service.

Progress. 🙄