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  • Amtrak Proposes Adding New Service to Scranton

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1618943  by scratchyX1
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:32 am Mr. Steamguy, you do raise a valid point in that the entire route is owned by one public agency or the other. Whatever apparently local freight is handled, it can be commanded to "get out of the way" just are the freight operations over the Corridor.

There simply will not be any "oh those darned freight railroads are just looking for any wrench they can throw in the way of our passenger train", much as has been the experience with the Mobile-NO service, and the Downeaster.

But despite whatever "boosting" our members here who have ties to the Wyoming Valley region, does this represent a "well spent" use of public funds? Where's the population growth? Will "three a day", or even twelve, suddenly return the Wyoming Valley to its once held position as a "thriving" region?

I personally doubt it, but this is a forum where all thoughts have equal weight.
Long term, I do see growth, as some regions become too water poor/ inhospitable to human occupation.
 #1618950  by Steamguy73
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:32 am But despite whatever "boosting" our members here who have ties to the Wyoming Valley region, does this represent a "well spent" use of public funds? Where's the population growth? Will "three a day", or even twelve, suddenly return the Wyoming Valley to its once held position as a "thriving" region?

I personally doubt it, but this is a forum where all thoughts have equal weight.
It would take more than that for the Wyoming Valley to become a thriving region. Then again, Amtrak has spent plenty of money and time to make Lincoln and Wolverine service faster and more frequent, and no one is going to confuse either Detroit or St. Louis as examples of flourishing cities/metro areas. Pittsburgh, same deal

One other reason Amtrak would probably want to have this service is for the purpose of good political will. A small beacon of sorts with no freight railroad controversy, no operator controvery, just a smooth running project (in theory). They'd be able to shoot one at the critics, saying "Look at how we're doing with the Lackawanna service. We started this up with little to no trouble. This is one of our most efficient and reliable services. Imagine if your town or state supported us, we'd give you service like we have to Scranton".

Plus, another way to shoot at the Class 1's. "Don't blame us for the Sunset Limited always being late and unreliable, blame UP. Blame NS for the Crescent being late, not us". And so on.
 #1618961  by edflyerssn007
 
A benefit that's overlooked is the ski crowds and pocono resort crowds that come from NYC. A ton of people would love to not be stuck on i80 and would like to just sit back and relax. Add in the increased connections from MetroNorth when they stsrt going to Penn Station and there's some serious inter-regional connectivity that would be enabled.
 #1618993  by photobug56
 
R36 Combine Coach wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 6:00 pm Would the Mount Arlington park-ride (285 spaces) make sense as a stop, over Blairstown?

If there is excess capacity on the Boonton Line, such as on weekends, might as well use it.
Pocono resorts are a big one. From Mt Pocono to Scranton, a number of them; they could reuse some Martz capacity to connect from the train stations to resorts or hotels.
 #1619003  by JoeG
 
I was wrong in my previous post for not realizing that some trains would stop at Morristown and others at Montclair. The "conceptual" schedule still seems unrealistically fast, suggesting and unrealistically short transit time on NJT rails.
I don't know how fast the PA part of the route would allow, but in Lackawanna days, if memory serves, trains did not zip through the Poconos at 80 MPH. (They did better west of Scranton.)
When the idea of restoring train service on the Lackawanna was first proposed, I thought that the target audience was Poconos commuters to NY and NJ. I have no idea how Covid has reduced the potential here but my impression is that all commuter services are still experiencing much-reduced traffic.
As for Poconos resorts, my impression is that most of them have faded, much like Catskills resorts to the north.
So who's gonna take a scenic but slow trip to Scranton, aside from nostalgic rail fans like me? Figure a 3.5 or 4 hour trip. Maybe Amtrak could provide one of its unused diners. Too bad they no longer have dome cars. If they could get one they could always attach it in Secaucus.
 #1619004  by photobug56
 
Getting between NYC and Scranton is painful and slow. Car traffic has been bad for decades. Busses are painful for a 3 to 5 hour ride. Resorts have trouble getting people from NYC - if they have cars, it's slow, if they don't, what do they take? Rail with resort shuttles could do wonders for the Pocono resorts, also Montage, and Scranton tourist sites. As to food service, a decent Cafe car would likely be sufficient unless, some day, there are extensions either to and beyond WB or north, etc. to the Southern Tier, which would be great for all sorts of communities and schools with poor transportation. Commuting, vacationers, students, lots of possible riders if marketed well and there's local cooperation.
 #1619006  by lensovet
 
It would be great if everyone actually read the report first before rehashing the same old arguments or asking questions that are literally answered in it.

All trains would be less than three hours total and allot more time for NYC-Dover than the fastest NJT trains today.
 #1619058  by JoeG
 
Anyone can print up a "conceptual" schedule. I'll believe it when I see actual trains running on a schedule, but I still doubt that we will see the service in my lifetime, much less in 5 years. Aside from everything else, neither NJT nor Amtrak has a good track record as project manager,
 #1619066  by JoeG
 
If the MTA/LIRR ran the project it would take 30 years and cost $30 billion. Second Avenue Subway anyone? Uh, maybe 30 years is too optimistic. But NJT is trying its best to compete. How long has the Andover project taken and when will it get done?
 #1619605  by Literalman
 
The fall 2022 Empire State Passenger Assn. newsletter, which I get via email but couldn't find just now on the ESPA website, had this on the front page:
President Joe Biden's "response to a question posed by re-elected Rep. Matt Cartwright (PA-8-D) representing Scranton, PA – 'Can you help us make sure we’re able to have high-speed rail service from Scranton to New York City?' President Biden - 'We can!'”
Nothing else accompanied it: no news, no comments. When I read it I dismissed it as an off-the-cuff answer because "high-speed rail" is, in my opinion, unlikely on this route. FRA Tier 1 for high-speed rail is 125 mph. Still, I was surprised to see that Amtrak is proposing 110 mph on the Lackawanna Cutoff—not officially high speed, but pretty fast.
 #1619625  by lensovet
 
Let’s just be clear: PNRRA commissioned Amtrak to put together this study back in 2021. Amtrak then contracted this out to yet another firm. This is why there is zero information in this study on what’s needed on the New Jersey side, because PNRRA won’t (and probably legally can’t) fund that.

Biden didn’t commission it, he didn’t provide funding for it, he had no influence on it. But I’m sure he’s happy to see it.
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