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  • #14 Orange Line Cars 1400-1551 (From Red/Orange Procurement discussion)

  • Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.
Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

Moderators: sery2831, CRail

 #1614381  by wicked
 
Maybe we should think long and hard, again, about how the three heavy rail lines each operate at differing height and width specifications. Maybe we should, you know, address that on some level. Perhaps a future rail car order could be a somewhat coordinated purchase. No interoperability, but at least there might be some cost savings re: size and scale of purchase.

No, it won't be easy.
 #1614383  by R36 Combine Coach
 
CSRR573 wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:28 pm Did Siemens bid on the contract? Seems like it would have been a shoe in as the BL and OL cars are almost identical and they could have just made the bodies bigger for the RL
Going back to the 80s, since Hawker Siddeley had built both the Blue and Orange Line cars on the same PATH PA3
design, when UTDC (which merged with Hawker SIddeley's Thunder Bay works) did the 01700s, why couldn't they
been the same design?
 #1614390  by rethcir
 
If this whole thing was a communist plot, it was damn devious. But it’s leaving quite a bit of money on the table if you’re CRCC. I hope it really was just simple management incompetence due to travel restrictions.

I wonder if the T could go to Siemens and get them to build out a batch of OL cars from the BL car specs. They just don’t have the pantograph, right? Then some super sized RL ones?

I suppose there’s way too many hoops for the T to jump thru to arrive at a simple solution like that. Maybe our legislators need to address some of the red tape.
 #1614406  by diburning
 
wicked wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:31 pm Maybe we should think long and hard, again, about how the three heavy rail lines each operate at differing height and width specifications. Maybe we should, you know, address that on some level. Perhaps a future rail car order could be a somewhat coordinated purchase. No interoperability, but at least there might be some cost savings re: size and scale of purchase.

No, it won't be easy.
This is the actual reason why the red and orange line cars were ordered at the same time.
 #1614424  by BandA
 
NY subway system is much larger and has only two form factors! If we recall, the Blue Line tunnel was designed for 1904 trolleys, then converted to subway cars. Main Line (Orange) cars had to initially fit through the Central Subway. (I assume current Orange Line cars would not fit). Red Line cars were basically designed to be big, and all T tunnel work since ~1960s is supposed to fit around Red Line cars iirc, although there is the famous scene of the first Bluebird car to go through the new Harvard Station took out the security cameras.
 #1614432  by wicked
 
diburning wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 5:01 am
wicked wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:31 pm Maybe we should think long and hard, again, about how the three heavy rail lines each operate at differing height and width specifications. Maybe we should, you know, address that on some level. Perhaps a future rail car order could be a somewhat coordinated purchase. No interoperability, but at least there might be some cost savings re: size and scale of purchase.

No, it won't be easy.
This is the actual reason why the red and orange line cars were ordered at the same time.
Yes, and with standard specs there could be even more cost savings in the future. They're still building shells for two types of cars, not one, no matter how many parts are shared between the two.

Would reprofiling platform height/width be something that would go through tons of red tape and an ADA review? I'm the idiot transit fan. I'm sure someone smart here knows more.
 #1614435  by HenryAlan
 
CSRR573 wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:28 pm Did Siemens bid on the contract? Seems like it would have been a shoe in as the BL and OL cars are almost identical and they could have just made the bodies bigger for the RL
They did not bid, so it was never an option to buy from Siemens.
wicked wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:31 pm Maybe we should think long and hard, again, about how the three heavy rail lines each operate at differing height and width specifications. Maybe we should, you know, address that on some level. Perhaps a future rail car order could be a somewhat coordinated purchase. No interoperability, but at least there might be some cost savings re: size and scale of purchase.

No, it won't be easy.
That is how the current Red/Orange procurement was handled. The cars are largely similar, just different dimensions.
 #1614452  by wicked
 
Why can't the dimensions of the cars be based on the smallest dimensions? I assume that's the Blue Line.

Yes, platform heights and widths would need to be adjusted, but that would be orders of magnitude lower than outright rebuilding tunnels.

Also, this: https://www.wcvb.com/article/mbta-expec ... n/42674031
Gonneville said the MBTA team has been "aggressively managing" CRRC but suggested leaders and Board of Directors "need to take a step back and take a fresh look at this contract a fresh look at this contract and really begin evaluating different strategies" to get new trains delivered as soon as possible.
Gonneville isn't sugarcoating things, but backing off is the last thing that needs to happen. Apparently the T hasn't managed things aggressively enough.
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