Amtrak’s Growing Pains with Siemens Locomotives

Germany has lots of snow. But Germany isnt running the crappy Cummins QSK, an engine that was developed with no real world testing in locomotives. the german models are running MTU diesels that do not have the same emissions nonsense that the american units require.

But lousy engine aside, Siemens should know how to keep snow out of the electricals and other equipment.

I'm wondering which Amtrak cars had lines freeze and how that problem wasn't solved a long time ago, either.

Hearing worse out of other train-related chats on Telegram. The cab signaling is fried on newer Chargers. Flat out not working. Amtrak has suspended ALL deliveries and are fining Siemens $80K/day until it gets fixed.

Also the snow issue was reported to me earlier off said same chats, which I pulled over on the ALC-42 procurement thread here.

What a great way to find out that so much is broken. Maybe the fines will be an incentive to Siemens to get their act together.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 2:06 pm Hearing worse out of other train-related chats on Telegram. The cab signaling is fried on newer Chargers. Flat out not working. Amtrak has suspended ALL deliveries and are fining Siemens $80K/day until it gets fixed.

Also the snow issue was reported to me earlier off said same chats, which I pulled over on the ALC-42 procurement thread here.

How is brightline not having same issues?

Brightline is not currently operating in the snow, unless Florida gets hit. And Brightline does not buy their locos through Amtrak.

VIA spent last winter testing the Siemens Charger. Do they have a different engine in their units? Europe also has stringent emissions controls; its far more likely the Cummins engines were used in the USA to meet "Buy America" requirements than because European engines can't meet US emissions standards.

photobug56 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:17 pm Brightline is not currently operating in the snow, unless Florida gets hit. And Brightline does not buy their locos through Amtrak.

Are the cab signals different?

Brightline is not currently operating on lines with cab signals. The un opened section will be cabs, but the current section is not. Also, brightline IS having problems, but you dont know that yet.

VIA chargers are built to the same T4 specs as the US units, and is also having problems.

Is the cab signaling something Siemens provides or is it aftermarket based on the railroad?

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

For those that do not understand CSS or Cab Signals: This has nothing to do with ACSES which is a safety overlay. The original system was developed by the PRR and is now widely used through out the world. It uses electrical pulses through the rails to send a signal to the locomotive which are picked up by bars underneath the pilot and displayed on the ADU or Aspect Display Unit. In cab signal territory these must be working or you are going to be restricted to much slower speeds. If you are outside the territory and want to enter you can not do to non operative CSS.
The original developer was US&S I have also seen Progress rail mentioned along with Hitachi what Amtrak uses specifically I could find out if I run into the right electrician

A chart for your reading enjoyment:

100 Hz code 250 Hz code Cab Signal Aspect Cab Signal Speed Notes
180 180 Clear 150 mph Legacy Units get Clear (125 mph)
180 — Clear 125 mph Original PRR System Code
270 270 Clear 100 mph Used for high density signaling.
270 — Cab Speed 60 mph Used for high density signaling. Compatible with LIRR ASC System
120 120 Cab Speed 80 mph Used for most high speed turnouts. Legacy Units get Approach Medium.
120 — Approach Medium 45 mph Original PRR System Code
75 75 Approach Medium 30 mph Used for high density signaling. Legacy Units get Approach
75 — Approach 30 mph Original PRR System Code
0 — Restricting 20 mph Original PRR System Code. Failsafe state

Trains with the ability to get the 250 Hz codes get upgraded speeds on track sections with speeds greater than 125 mph and on 80 mph high speed turnouts. Trains without simply travel at the slower speeds. The 270ppm code does break backwards compatibility with the 4-code system, but is only in use around New York Penn Station as part of a high density signaling upgrade. The 270ppm code and 60 mph speed were chosen to be compatible with the cab signals installed on the Long Island Rail Road trains that also use Penn Station.

ApproachMedium wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:10 pm Brightline is not currently operating on lines with cab signals. The un opened section will be cabs, but the current section is not.

Florida East Coast had their own cab signalling system on the main line. It was slightly different from the US&S 4-aspect system. I wasn't aware it was removed.

From Trains magazine:

The eastbound Empire Builder, scheduled to arrive in Chicago on Tuesday, Dec. 20, makes its way through CP Morgan near Chicago Union station some 17 hours late on Wednesday, Dec. 21, behind BNSF power after all three Siemens Charger locomotives failed in rural Minnesota the previous day.
Bob Johnston


Looks like there is a (yellow faced???) Genesis there in the fourth engine spot which may have prevented this from being a real catastrophe if the consist lost all power.

Wow, not exactly a good look for Amtrak or Siemens. But I'll bet BNSF will remember for all sorts of reasons.

I've long had mixed feelings re Siemens. Hi tech, sure. But the one thing of theirs (essentially an office phone system) was hard to use and unreliable. Even if the prime movers are US built, I've now heard so many bad things about their locos in the US.

Empire Builder today was 23 hours late last time I checked. Some pretty bad weather out there.