Amtrak Empire Service (New York State)

ctclark1 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:41 pm I think he's saying after Gunn took the NYS-owned rebuilt Turbos into hiding, Boardman's retaliation was that NYS stopped paying Amtrak for in-house food service and contracted with Subway instead.

Long story short, the lack of in-house food service is the result of a tit-for-tat battle between Amtrak and NYS.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just reading between Railjunkie's lines.

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner

thank you @ctclark1 and I hear what you're saying. But it still strikes me as an odd sort of retaliation: "We, NYS, are going to punish Amtrak for absconding with our turbos by... suspending their obligation to provide cafe service." I'm sure Amtrak was quaking in fear when they heard that! It's not as if this was a lucrative, profitable business line for Amtrak. And NYS sure didn't do their constituents any favors by downgrading Empire Service to the point one could not get a coffee or beer or snack on board. Oh well, ancient history.

Never underestimate the... incompetence... of politicians.

Also, it could be said that in a sense, it wasn't entirely fruitless. I mean, here we are discussing the lack of food options. *shrug*

As I've said, turn it over to Brightline. You'll get at-seat service, nicer trains, more frequent service.

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:28 am As I've said, turn it over to Brightline. You'll get at-seat service, nicer trains, more frequent service.

^ This ^

Why would Brightline even be remotely interested? There's no TOD to turn over to them, which their long-term profit model relies upon, and west of Albany, CSX will treat any passenger service on their property like they do now, as second to their own revenue operations.

Yes of course brightline would not be interested. As for west of Schenectady, a dedicated passenger track would need to be installed for reliable fast service.

I think Jeff's point is that Brightline is competent and definitely care about what they are doing. Their service stands out in stark contrast to anything Amtrak is doing.

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:28 am As I've said, turn it over to Brightline. You'll get at-seat service, nicer trains, more frequent service.

hrsn wrote:Why would Brightline even be remotely interested? There's no TOD to turn over to them, which their long-term profit model relies upon, and west of Albany, CSX will treat any passenger service on their property like they do now, as second to their own revenue operations.

You also forgot Metro North, Canadian Pacific, Canadian National, The Vermont Railroad or whatever they call themselves today. Nothing in the rule book says they must allow crews from Brightline onto their territory.

Brightline does not pay into Railroad Retirement system so your going to loose the majority of your qualified crews

That said, there is no reason another organization that does pay into the RR couldn't use their business model.
Posey's rail development Corp comes to mind as one that could pull it off.

Ok, we now come to the next issue at hand. It will be time for the Amtrak employees to make a choice go with what they know or go with a start up and hope it works. Knowing full well if it fails AND IF Amtrak were to come back in your going to be considered a "new" man and your previous seniority means squat. I still say you loose half your T&E crews and have issues going onto foreign railroads. Do not forget CSX negotiated the lease of the Hudson Sub with Amtrak so that too could become an issue

I'm not talking about LD, just south of Albany. I know the lack of any TOD's along the ROW would inhibit. Unions are the dealbreakers here, but I do believe Amtrak and MNRR would allow the trains, just not if they're non-union.

Jeff Smith wrote:I'm not talking about LD, just south of Albany. I know the lack of any TOD's along the ROW would inhibit. Unions are the dealbreakers here, but I do believe Amtrak and MNRR would allow the trains, just not if they're non-union.

Let me get this straight, you want Amtrak to give up the revenue/ridership from a station that is consistently around tenth best in the country. Negotiate a whole new service with CSX who holds the lease agreement, Amtrak and Metro North??? For what again exactly? Shinny new trains that go no faster that what is there now? The ability to get a bite to eat on the train, read plenty how the food sucks. What makes a new service any better? Perhaps a happier train crew?
Sounds like a lot of money for hopes and dreams.

Who is funding this? New York State? Is there ANY evidence NYS govt is unhappy with the current service and might consider this?

Also, where are you going in NYC? Grand Central? Good luck getting Penn / East River / Sunnyside slots...

andrewjw wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:22 am Who is funding this? New York State? Is there ANY evidence NYS govt is unhappy with the current service and might consider this?

Also, where are you going in NYC? Grand Central? Good luck getting Penn / East River / Sunnyside slots...

Good luck getting slots into Grand Central. LIRR had to build it's own concourse just to get slots.

That said, it's worth a revisit into food service. Albany to NYC you can get away with it, because it's roughly 2.5 hours away. But trains 280, 281, 283, 284... basically the 28x series, that's 10 hours. That's day-trip service. Without some food service, that's inexcusable.

In fact, you're better off splitting the 28x trains into a dedicated name: The Hudson and Niagra

By comparison, the Keystone service is 3.3 hours at it's longest and does not have a cafe.

The 28x trains carry cafes. It's the 23x trains that do not offer cafe services.