Amtrak Too Expensive!!!!

Well... it is far more expensive in my sample size of two families.

We are taking an Alaska cruise in June, and I toyed with the idea of taking Amtrak to and from Seattle until I saw it was going to be $7,800 for the seven of us to get to Seattle.

That's more expensive than the cruise.


Flying was less than $3,000 round trip, driving would be around $1,500. That's including hotels...

Pretending for a moment that going green is worth paying a little more, it's certainly not worth two to four times the price.

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Amtrak sleeping car fares are certainly high. Whether or not they’re too expensive is somewhat subjective, but if the prices that Amtrak charges maximize revenues, I guess Amtrak is then making a sound business decision, even if I don’t find the fares to be a decent value. I can fly paid first class for the same price as Amtrak, or less, and flying first class just seems “classier” than Amtrak sleeping car travel.

However, since Amtrak does need public support to get elected officials to get funds for it, I’d think that another strategy- trying to get as many riders as possible by offering as many seats/rooms as possible- would be a good idea. Given that Amtrak has so much overhead but, on many routes, so few trains to split up the burden of that overhead, I’d think that this approach might end up with the same profits or losses as Amtrak’s high-fare/few customers strategy.

So if I were Amtrak, I’d be offering 20-car long-distance trains. Have ultra-first class; regular sleeping cars; budget sleeping cars; premium coach; regular coach; budget coach (perhaps a few old Metro-North coaches), etc. As long as the marginal revenues from a new passenger in one of these new classes of service exceeds the marginal costs by $0.01, it’s worth trying.

Would it make sense for third parties to hook their own cars to Amtrak trains and offer their own sleeping car service?

How are you calculating or comparing the sleeper fare Mr. Norman? Just curious. Munich to Rome, 566 miles one-way, for Euro 498 or 44 cents per mile in US dollars (Euro on par with Dollar, agree!). Taking the Capitol Limited for a round trip in mid-February, in a roomette, I come up with a calculation of 63 cents per mile. That's a 45% increase if taking Amtrak. Sticking to a per mile calculation, round trip it's an additional $220 for roundtrip on Amtrak roomette on just 566 miles....Amtrak's absolute lowest prices all year, by far, is first quarter. Be interesting to see an example in say May or June.....Am I missing or misinterpreting something from your example?

Would love to see say a slumbercoach option on Amtrak - sort of a middle of the road option. Roomette and Bedroom prices on Amtrak due to reduced capacity right now, are the highest that I've ever seen. I don't mind paying the price if I feel I am getting my money's worth. Amtrak falls short on that right now though, despite best effort by Amtrak onboard crews....And I've never seen sleeper class so booked in late October and early November, as just experienced on a recent LD quarterly trip......

The difference in operating cost was staggering. $0.35c per mile for Europe vs. $0.70 per mile with Amtrak?

Considering that Europe also subsidizes its roads and airports along with railroads, it's really hard to see our operating costs doubled here, especially when our energy prices are so much lower. I don't think you can entirely explain away the lower costs per mile in Europe on their higher frequency and more mileage.

No Amtrak is not too expansive...Its compeitor Greyhound often charges fares that are twice as much and latley here in White River Juntion VT some days the bus does not show up and no explantiom and n0o refund fo rthe delay

charlesriverbranch wrote: ↑Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:13 am Would it make sense for third parties to hook their own cars to Amtrak trains and offer their own sleeping car service?

Every now and then I see small operators doing that for special events here in New Orleans. Just the other day, I saw an offer for a private car trip CHI-NOL for Mardi Gras. $5000 for the roundtrip on the back of the CONO and includes several days stay aboard the car parked in NOL.

Are Amtrak sleeping cars too expensive? I guess that’s a subjective thing. Has Congress ever indicated what Amtrak’s mission should be in regard to sleeping cars? Is Amtrak even required to operate sleeping cars? Some seem to think that the high prices are a betrayal of Congressional content and that they should be affordable but is it? Interesting questions. Although some would probably say if it’s become so expensive I’m refusing a trip than Amtrak is betraying its mission and management must go but again I am torn about sleepers.

It isn’t just about capacity either bucket prices have generally increased and while the prices are certainly going to turn away some passengers who price compare to other modes especially those who are comparing non refundable cattle coach like Southwest with Amtrak sleepers but if they have enough of a captive audience should they or shouldn’t they be pricing as high as the market and their demand will bear? Is it a premium product or a necessary product for overnight service that should be priced affordably? All interesting questions that likely people are going to have different takes on and I am honestly torn. I guess until Congress or the FRA opines on this Amtrak management is free to do as they will.

Yesterday morning I tried to book Amtrak Keystone Service train 660 from Philadelphia to New York on December 4 to ride the NY Transit Museum's Holiday Train. One seat remained for $38. By the time I added my new credit card to my profile, they seat had been sold and the price is now $86. It's not a total loss; I'll ride NJ Transit's River LINE DLRV from Camden to Trenton and a NJ Transit NEC train Trenton to New York.

lordsigma12345 wrote: some passengers who price compare to other modes especially those who are comparing non refundable cattle coach like Southwest with Amtrak sleepers but if they have enough of a captive audience should they or shouldn’t they be pricing as high as the market and their demand will bear?

It's timing vs value. People will tolerate cattle coach for a 3-5 hour flight over 1500 miles. They won't sit in coach for a 48 hour train ride for the same price and distance. They will for a 4-6 hour ride, though. And it's questionable if they'll pay 3x for the sleeper that takes 8-15x longer in transit... most won't.

I guess until Congress or the FRA opines on this Amtrak management is free to do as they will.

This is outside FRA and DOT's realm. They're safety agencies.

Congress won't even require Amtrak to be fiscally responsible and cover their dining costs at the farebox... they'll just keep throwing enough money at the problem to keep the peace. It the trains are funded and running, they don't want to know the details like how full or profitable the operations actually are.

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