Could Superliners Serve Boston???

Low bridges, tunnels, and stations. Is a very long time to correct. Places that IMO that will never be corrected are East River tunnel bores 1 -4, NYP station, North river tunnels, PHL 30th street tracks 1 - 8.

Locations that maybe can be corrected are:
1. All NEC bridges,
2. Talked about possible East river tunnel bores 5 and 6,
3. New York Penn South station
4. Newark overhanging canopy and CAT
5. Use abandoned 30th street tracks 9 & 10 . And platform
6. Raise WASH Union station CAT
7. If possible change profile of WASH 1st street tunnel
8. Add additional 1st street bore.
9. Any others not noted.
10. CAT where needed

So probabbly will not be alive when all these items are completed (Year 2099 )

More likely, the Superliners will be replaced by all single level equipment while you are still alive.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

west point wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:02 pm Low bridges, tunnels, and stations. Is a very long time to correct. Places that IMO that will never be corrected are East River tunnel bores 1 -4, NYP station, North river tunnels, PHL 30th street tracks 1 - 8.

Locations that maybe can be corrected are:
1. All NEC bridges,
2. Talked about possible East river tunnel bores 5 and 6,
3. New York Penn South station
4. Newark overhanging canopy and CAT
5. Use abandoned 30th street tracks 9 & 10 . And platform
6. Raise WASH Union station CAT
7. If possible change profile of WASH 1st street tunnel
8. Add additional 1st street bore.
9. Any others not noted.
10. CAT where needed

So probabbly will not be alive when all these items are completed (Year 2099 )

I'm looking at the year 25xx myself, but even then I doubt we'll get flying cars... or that much will change drastically.

What about via the Boston and Albany? Could a Superliner train get to Boston from points west, if for some bizarre reason someone wanted to? Double-stack clearances get pretty close to the city, don't they?

Even if it could, it would have to terminate at Back Bay, or the passengers would have climb up stepstools and crawl out the top halves of the doorways onto the high platforms at South Station. Are there any low platforms left at Albany-R? Or Springfield? Or Worcester?

The Lake Shore Limited stops at a low level platform at Pittsfield, Springfield, and Framingham. Lots of the MBTA stops east of Worcester are low level with a small section of high level. Worcester is in the midst of a platform construction project at the moment - trains are currently boarding at a temporary station area a bit east of WUS.

Arborwayfan wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:55 pm What about via the Boston and Albany? Could a Superliner train get to Boston from points west, if for some bizarre reason someone wanted to? Double-stack clearances get pretty close to the city, don't they?

Even if it could, it would have to terminate at Back Bay, or the passengers would have climb up stepstools and crawl out the top halves of the doorways onto the high platforms at South Station. Are there any low platforms left at Albany-R? Or Springfield? Or Worcester?

Albany is all high-level platforms, along with Schenectady (I THINK, since rebuilding), Syracuse, and Rochester on the Water Level Route. I think the new platforms at Worcester are to be high level as well, but I'm not sure.

I rode a Lake Shore West from Chicago that had Superliners substituting. This was probably 20 years ago or so. The Superliners went only as far as Albany. This was before all the upstate stations were rebuilt but Syracuse was already high level. The Superliner coach was spotted at a portion of the platform in Syracuse that dipped down enough to allow low level loading.

Robert Paniagua wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:27 am You're right, it is practically impossible to operate Superliners anywhere in the NEC. And as Mr. Astrosa mentioned in an earlier post, Superliners are 16'-1" tall while the MBTA's Double Deckers are 15'-6" tall, which is enough for them to operate from BOS to PVD, beyond PVD, even MBTA bilevels can't run due to the combination of low-bridges and the catenary.

Don't the bilevels run to Wickford Junction?

lordsigma12345 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:06 pm The Lake Shore Limited stops at a low level platform at Pittsfield, Springfield, and Framingham. Lots of the MBTA stops east of Worcester are low level with a small section of high level. Worcester is in the midst of a platform construction project at the moment - trains are currently boarding at a temporary station area a bit east of WUS.

Are they using the Worcester Amshack?

I think terminating the Lake Shore Limited at a suburban station would be a bad idea. A long-distance train should run to downtown Boston, which means either North or South Station, both of which are full-length high platforms.

charlesriverbranch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:49 am Are they using the Worcester Amshack?

I think terminating the Lake Shore Limited at a suburban station would be a bad idea. A long-distance train should run to downtown Boston, which means either North or South Station, both of which are full-length high platforms.

I had to check, but rerouting the LSL to North Station is adding a ton of milage just to get there. They would need a connector branch to do it right.

I think Back Bay could be OK as a terminal ((well, first/last passenger station; obviously servicing would have to be in the yards attached to S. Sta.) for a long distance train -- it's as downtown as South Station and more downtown than some cities' stations (certainly more downtown than St. Paul is for Minneapolis ) -- but it seems silly to do that when South Station exists. And I don't see any particular benefit to using Superliners in and out of Boston.

Dear Train 7 were you just thinking hypothetically -- the way we've all been answering -- or did you see some specific benefit from running the Boston section of the LSL with Superliners?

charlesriverbranch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:44 am

Robert Paniagua wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:27 am You're right, it is practically impossible to operate Superliners anywhere in the NEC. And as Mr. Astrosa mentioned in an earlier post, Superliners are 16'-1" tall while the MBTA's Double Deckers are 15'-6" tall, which is enough for them to operate from BOS to PVD, beyond PVD, even MBTA bilevels can't run due to the combination of low-bridges and the catenary.

Don't the bilevels run to Wickford Junction?

Yes.

Cranston interlocking is the actual boundary point; the bilevels are prohibited west of that location.

Superliners are 16' 4" tall. For comparison Budd and UP-Style domes are 15'10", MILW super domes and C&O Chessie domes are 15'7" tall. The lowest ones were SP's homebuilts and B&O's PS-built strata-domes at 15' 6". SP made a big deal about dome height in the 1970s, resulting in Amtrak's long-term lease and then purchase of 6 of SP's home-builts. Management changes and some (very minor) track changes mainly for fully-enclosed auto racks led to the use there of Budd Domes after about 1978. Apparently whatever changes were made were good enough to allow the use of Superliners beginning in 1979.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:28 pm

charlesriverbranch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:49 am Are they using the Worcester Amshack?

I think terminating the Lake Shore Limited at a suburban station would be a bad idea. A long-distance train should run to downtown Boston, which means either North or South Station, both of which are full-length high platforms.

I had to check, but rerouting the LSL to North Station is adding a ton of milage just to get there. They would need a connector branch to do it right.

There have been recurring suggestions in this forum that they could put the Grand Junction, which does run from BET just before North Station, through the MIT campus, across the Charles under the BU Bridge and connecting to the B&A just east of the former Beacon Yard, into revenue service to bring some of the Inland Route trains to North Station rather than South. While that would also provide a cross-platform connection from the Downeaster to New York, my hunch is that it would last until the first MIT student died while passed out on the tracks.

In a discussion of Superliners, I don't think the Grand Junction is feasible, due to clearance under the BU bridge.