An odd thought came to me over in the Acela II thread, so I'm double-checking math and whatnot: Superliners on the LSL to NY Grand Central Terminal.
And no, I already know they can't go to Boston. Searching this thread tells me "keep to 14.5' in Boston." I'm now wondering if GCT can handle Superliners, even if they need to take a detour through the Hells Gate.
Railroad Forums
Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman
If I may respond with my odd thoughts about this. I have always entertained the thought of taking a Superliner LSL to Penn Station. If you watch the Mole People videos you can see that the Empire/West Side connection was a well cleared freight line and Superliners can get enticingly close to Penn Station. I don't know the exact dimensions of the "newer" short connector tunnel (which has third rail and wire in that last stretch) and of course low level platforms would be needed somewhere. You also couldn't get to Sunnyside for servicing so a small facility would need to be built somewhere on the Connection but that's possible. Maybe even a satellite station? Shuttle? Moving sidewalk? It's just an interesting concept for my imagination.
While reading Bills Affecting Interstate Commerce, Hearings ... on H.R. 9047, 9132, 9216, 10495, 11243 (the source for the clearance on the Park Ave tunnel), the chief engineer of the New York Central states that per agreement between the New York Central and the State of New York, the minimum clearance above rail is 16' for new bridges built 60 miles out from the City of New York. I think Superliners are 16' 2".
STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:07 pm And no, I already know they can't go to Boston. Searching this thread tells me "keep to 14.5' in Boston."Was the Prudential Center/Back Bay tunnel built to a loading gauge to restrict freight? I can't think of
any freight running through the Prudential Center except carloads to the Boston Herald (now closed).
Since my friend continues to chain smoke nonstop, she is probably an Alco.
STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:07 pm An odd thought came to me over in the Acela II thread, so I'm double-checking math and whatnot: Superliners on the LSL to NY Grand Central Terminal.We have had Superliners in Albany on 48/49 turned the train set on the wye, wish I had pictures. That is as far as they go same with private varnish domes. Empire Tunnel cant handle them and I believe there maybe a bridge or two on Metro North with clearance issues. I have no idea about the clearances of the Park Ave tunnels and GCT. I would take a SWAG and say they wont fit. One of the many reasons NYCRR didn't have dome cars in its inventory.
And no, I already know they can't go to Boston. Searching this thread tells me "keep to 14.5' in Boston." I'm now wondering if GCT can handle Superliners, even if they need to take a detour through the Hells Gate.
Green means GO Red means STOP Yellow your on YOUR OWN
The MBTA bi-level equipment is 15' 6" according to Hyundai Rotem. Still shorter than Superliners, but not as restrictive as suggested elsewhere (unless Amtrak has a non-revenue facility that the MBTA bi-levels can't fit in).
New Superliner IIs were delivered from the Bombardier plant in Barre VT via the New England Central and Palmer MA, including one group led by a P32AC-DM and an FL9 that had been at Railroad Days in White River Jct VT. As far as I know that was as far east as Superliners ever got on the LSL's route.
The consist above also had a couple of heritage display cars and a Viewliner II sleeper. Between White River Jct and Bellows Falls an ex-Rutland wooden combine owned by Green Mountain RR brought up the markers (with unlit oil marker lamps!). GMRC's ex-Rutland RS1 405 pulled the combine off at Bellows Falls.
The consist above also had a couple of heritage display cars and a Viewliner II sleeper. Between White River Jct and Bellows Falls an ex-Rutland wooden combine owned by Green Mountain RR brought up the markers (with unlit oil marker lamps!). GMRC's ex-Rutland RS1 405 pulled the combine off at Bellows Falls.
I personally have seen the dome car Silver Chalet in South Station. It was the Quad Graphics business/display train but it came in via the Fairmount. However I do remember that Amtrak did a dome car test run to Boston and the car cleared the Beacon Street bridge but only by inches which they felt was too close for comfort. Wouldn't it be great to see the fall foliage through the Berkshires from a LSL dome car crossing the state?
Silver Chalet in Chcago:
Silver Chalet in Chcago:
Mr. Trainguy, member R Paul Carey wrote about handling a dome into South Station:
post68183.html#p68183
post68183.html#p68183
Thank you Mr. Norman. My memory is still working adequately at least 
bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:16 am Wouldn't it be great to see the fall foliage through the Berkshires from a LSL dome car crossing the state?Well, Timmy had his 1:1 Lionel Dome!!!
But I guess that now belongs to Chessie, and who knows if she will include such in the consist of her Executrain.
Likely off topic at an Amtrak Forum, I think Mr. Ainsworth passed prior to Timmy acquiring the car, so that acquisition would not be reported at his Dome Main site that is still maintained on the Train Web platform.
Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:59 am Mr. Trainguy, member R Paul Carey wrote about handling a dome into South Station:Yeah, I saw that when I searched the thread first before the question. Thus my "It's not going to Boston" comment.
post68183.html#p68183
So I'm going to Chicago next month. I have the option of taking the Cardinal or the LSL back to Penn on the day I'm leaving (on a Saturday) each with it's pro's and cons:
LSL pros:
Since I live in CT, I'm going to have to go to Grand Central, and I could just disembark at Poughkeepsie or Croton-Harmon (like I did the last time I was on the LSL) so I could have the cross-platform or same-platform transfer to GCT instead of lugging luggage across Midtown.
Also a later departure and shorter arrival time. More time in Chicago, and an earlier arrival into Penn means even if it's really delayed I could probably still get the commuter rail back to home base in Fairfield County.
Cardinal pro's:
One of the most scenic routes in the system, and I would cross this off my list since I've never taken it before.
LSL cons:
Aside from the stretch from Albany-Penn, most of the rest of the line is boring with not a lot of highlights, and I've ridden this line plenty of times from Penn/Croton/Poughkeepsie/Springfield to Cleveland & Chicago so it wouldn't be a first time thing.
Cardinal cons (and this is my only hangup):
Since it doesn't run on Metro North tracks I have to go all the way to Penn, meaning I have to make my own way to GCT and not get a connection at Poughkeepsie/Croton like I could on the LSL if I'm running late, and if the Cardinal is running 3+ hours late there's a pretty good chance I will miss the last Metro North train, and it's quite possible even 2.5 hours late that could happen too.
I would prefer to take the Cardinal 1) because I've never taken it and 2) It seems like it's a better route to take EB (towards NY) than WB (towards Chicago) but if I have a 50% chance of arriving into Penn after 12:45 (or about 2.5 hours late) than I'd go for the LSL and make sure I can actually get the Metro North, so what I'm asking, even though it's not this topic how's the on-time percentage been for the EB Cardinal the last 6 months or so??
LSL pros:
Since I live in CT, I'm going to have to go to Grand Central, and I could just disembark at Poughkeepsie or Croton-Harmon (like I did the last time I was on the LSL) so I could have the cross-platform or same-platform transfer to GCT instead of lugging luggage across Midtown.
Also a later departure and shorter arrival time. More time in Chicago, and an earlier arrival into Penn means even if it's really delayed I could probably still get the commuter rail back to home base in Fairfield County.
Cardinal pro's:
One of the most scenic routes in the system, and I would cross this off my list since I've never taken it before.
LSL cons:
Aside from the stretch from Albany-Penn, most of the rest of the line is boring with not a lot of highlights, and I've ridden this line plenty of times from Penn/Croton/Poughkeepsie/Springfield to Cleveland & Chicago so it wouldn't be a first time thing.
Cardinal cons (and this is my only hangup):
Since it doesn't run on Metro North tracks I have to go all the way to Penn, meaning I have to make my own way to GCT and not get a connection at Poughkeepsie/Croton like I could on the LSL if I'm running late, and if the Cardinal is running 3+ hours late there's a pretty good chance I will miss the last Metro North train, and it's quite possible even 2.5 hours late that could happen too.
I would prefer to take the Cardinal 1) because I've never taken it and 2) It seems like it's a better route to take EB (towards NY) than WB (towards Chicago) but if I have a 50% chance of arriving into Penn after 12:45 (or about 2.5 hours late) than I'd go for the LSL and make sure I can actually get the Metro North, so what I'm asking, even though it's not this topic how's the on-time percentage been for the EB Cardinal the last 6 months or so??