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  • Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.
Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

Moderator: AlexC

 #1604742  by newkirk
 
ExCon90 wrote: Exactly. Looks like the fans are out for the last week or so of operation?
Seeing that photo reminds me that Montreal streetcars had no headlights; at night the dash was illuminated from just above, and that had to suffice.
The last day of Montreal streetcar service I believe is Aug 30, 1959. But October 1959 was written on the slide box. Perhaps when the photographer had these processed ? At the risk of going off topic, here are some more photos including a Montreal PCC without a headlight. What became of those museum streetcars pictured below ?


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 #1604801  by ExCon90
 
newkirk wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:30 am
ExCon90 wrote" As to the 5th photo in your post of Aug. 13, Ron DeGraw's book The Red Arrow contains an all-time roster of passenger, freight, and work cars, and no car 402 is listed. Fwiw.
If you look closely, I see a third rail shoe beam on one truck. Could this be a Philadelphia & Western work car even though I see a trolley pole ?
That's been puzzling me -- I'm wondering whether Lehigh Valley Transit ever had through baggage and express service between Allentown and 69th St. Seems unlikely, but the Reading certainly couldn't have matched it with either a joint service with CNJ or LV or via Perkiomen Jct. I can't imagine what use the P&W would have for trolley poles on anything, so maybe it was an LVT car. (Ron DeGraw also did a book on the P&W called Pig & Whistle, but I don't recall reading anything -- I don't have the book -- about such a service, and it surely would have been mentioned if there was any.

I don't know what became of those Montreal cars but I certainly hope they found a good home somewhere. Seashore has a number of survivors from Montreal, including I believe two of the open-air sightseeing cars (with backward-facing seats arranged stepwise, theater style). Maybe some Seashore experts on here know.
 #1604814  by octr202
 
(Off-topic portion): Seashore has sightseeing car #2. All four were saved - #1 &#3 are at Exporail outside Montreal, and #4 is at the Connecticut Trolley Museum. #4 and one of the Exporail cars are operating, #2 at STM is close to operational (it needs some truck and wheel work done to address wear and tear over the years). STM also has three other Montreal cars, all of which are stored indoors but not currently operable or on display.

Back on topic: Didn't the P&W need trolley poles for the Norristown terminal prior to the elevated station (the one that served until the current Transportation Center was built)? In the early 20th Century, didn't the cars descend to street level and terminate at ground level, using trolley poles for the last portion?
 #1604866  by ExCon90
 
I never thought about what they did prior to the elevated terminal, but if P&W operated in the street in Norristown they would have had to have trolley poles; I always assumed that the elevated terminal dated from when the line reached Norristown.
 #1604867  by ExCon90
 
newkirk wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:48 am The last day of Montreal streetcar service I believe is Aug 30, 1959. But October 1959 was written on the slide box. Perhaps when the photographer had these processed ?
After another look at the photo I'd say the fans aren't dressed for an October in Montreal; August seems more likely.
 #1604929  by OrlandoRei
 
These photos have been taken on 30/08/1959 and show parade that marked the end of urban rail operation in montreal.
However roughly 60 trams have been retained until 1963 (when they had to be scrapped or sold as there was need of space for the metro) in youville shops. A part was intended for selling but most were part of the historical collection and were then sent to various museums, so i'm not sure that the last two photos are from august. (For the first one there isn't doubt).
If you like to know more of the last days of montreal tramways (in real time) you should read the earlier numbers of "canadian rail" magazine (you can easily find them for free on internet searching "crha canadian rail")

Off topic 1
altrough i'ts usually said that montreal tramways had only a front dash light this is not true: since the end of xix century a number of cars was equipped for the so-called suburban service and had a large portable front light on the dash. The number and percentage of these cars changed throgout the time and varied from 20 cars on 1000 (2%) to 100-150 cars in the later days (compared to a faster declining urban fleet: in 1951 the suburbs where about 15-20%; i belive they were more than 70% of the cars in 1959). On the other side there were some cars who had no illumination at all. These were mostly historic cars and less than a dozen but they were commonly saw on the tracks

Off topic 2
It's true that in the later days the two-man cars were painted in cream and green and the one-man ones where cream with red trim, but these were just the remnants of a color coding system:
The two man (and originally also the one man ones) cars where green
The freight cars where grey
The work cars where red
The suburbans cars where orange
The one man cars where cream
The buses (only the diesel ones) where golden
All the passenger carrying vehicles had the higher part of the body painted in cream; the one man vehicles (with front entrance) had a red stripe below the windows - this feature remained on the buses for years since the dismission of trams
 #1605088  by newkirk
 
OrlandoRei,

The first two photos were most likely taken on the same day. Youville shops ?

Did any of their PCC's end up in any trolley museums?
 #1605257  by OrlandoRei
 
newkirk wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:59 am OrlandoRei,

The first two photos were most likely taken on the same day. Youville shops ?

Did any of their PCC's end up in any trolley museums?
If i don't remind wrong in the last months of streetcar operation the youville shops remained unconnected and the photos should have been taken at mount royal carhouse

The pcc shown in the photo is preserved at exporail museum near montreal (the others have been scrapped in 1963 as no buyers were found); however we shouldn't concentrate much about montreal's pcc as they were just 18 (over 1100 cars at the time of delivery in 1944) and never represented the system that was sometimes referred to as "the last north american traditional system"
 #1605270  by newkirk
 
OrlandoRei wrote: If i don't remind wrong in the last months of streetcar operation the youville shops remained unconnected and the photos should have been taken at mount royal carhouse
Thank you for your valuable information.
 #1605282  by MACTRAXX
 
AC (and Everyone participating) -
Let's split off the Montreal conversation and place that part of the topic in one of the Canadian forums
where they really should be to continue this discussion about historical Montreal trolley cars and routes...

SEPTA's predecessors and their history can be quite interesting - the recent West Chester pictures stand out
to me seeing where the trolley line once terminated there...MACTRAXX
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