SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

PHLSpecial wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 8:56 am Battery powered trains? Can't see that going too well.

Agreed about the price tag as well for redoing the stations. West Chester would would need bus bays as well I would think besides just empty parking lots

BEMUs (not the ones that sell insurance) are already in revenue service in both Germany and Japan.

Is it reliable and doesn't require extra infrastructure because of the additional weight? Also I would think that there is no support for IMC, though since there is no plans for catenary I guess that's pointless.
Maybe I can support this since its on short tracks and only on low frequency routes.

Where are you going to maintain and charge them?

A realistic option IMO would be two diesel locomotives with three coaches each (one being a control car) running push pull with an initial stop at West Chester, maybe one other location, and WAWA. With Amtrak divesting of power and Amfleets in short order, they might not be a bad option since they could go to 30th Street for service. Nothing particularly fancy and something that could easily be converted to a dual mode one-seat service down the road.

I think this is what they are thinking of using.
They've been testing them at rockhill furnace trolley museum for the last 2 years.
https://rrdc.com/companies/vivarail/

Oh boy! Do they come with the added feature of spontaneously exploding as electric cars do? As well as using batteries mined using slave trade from commie countries that hate us and want nothing more than to wipe us off the planet? Can't wait!

Seriously, this is government-think at it's best. Battery vehicles. Just electrify the damn line like it was, or buy Diesels. SEPTA is a stubborn orginization. Don't think for a moment they didn't deliberately buy those Siemens engines in electric form as a means to spite us taxpayers that want expanded SEPTA service to Quakertown, Reading, Lancaster/Harrisburg/Atglen. That way SEPTA, which resists expansion at every turn unlike it's peer agencies, can always go "Oh, well we don't have diesel-electrics, we'd have to buy new engines for expansion", making it more costly. They know damn well these things take forever to bid on and have delivered. You're dealing with probably the most spiteful transit agency on the face of the Earth.

rcthompson04 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 8:53 am This seems like the West Chester Borough Council being way in over their head.

You got that right. A test would be meaningless for estimating potential ridership unless the trains -- of whatever design -- operate at a commercial speed, something not possible between West Chester and Wawa without more expenditure on track and signaling improvements than could be justified for a two-year trial. Suggestions have been made in this forum that the quickest way from West Chester to Philadelphia is by Route 100 to Exton, thence expresses to Center City (preferably making only Malvern and Paoli en route), and unless 100 is impossible in rush hours that seems to be the best -- and cheapest -- solution.

ExCon90 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:36 pm You got that right. A test would be meaningless for estimating potential ridership unless the trains -- of whatever design -- operate at a commercial speed, something not possible between West Chester and Wawa without more expenditure on track and signaling improvements than could be justified for a two-year trial. Suggestions have been made in this forum that the quickest way from West Chester to Philadelphia is by Route 100 to Exton, thence expresses to Center City (preferably making only Malvern and Paoli en route), and unless 100 is impossible in rush hours that seems to be the best -- and cheapest -- solution.

Yes I stand by my prior support for the express bus from West Chester to Exton station via Pottstown Pike. There is a congestion problem by the station that PennDOT and West Whiteland are working on along with a bus loop at the station that cost less than this “trial”. These projects are already moving along and will not be a waste as this trial will be.

93r8g7 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:09 pm Oh boy! Do they come with the added feature of spontaneously exploding as electric cars do?

[…]

This is just a pet project of the West Chester Borough Council and doesn’t appear to include anyone with any ounce of knowledge including PennDOT, SEPTA, DVRPC, or Chester County. It is well known out here in Chester County that West Chester borough is ran by a bunch of morons that struggle to plow snow in the winter time and have to have neighboring municipalities and PennDOT clear streets for them during bad storms. The thought of them running a toy railroad is laughable.

So in a world where nobody else wants to do it, you'd rather there be absolutely no train service to/from West Chester instead of the borough trying something?

Everyone else did the math and saw it doesn’t work without a substantial investment that drains funds from other projects within the county (commuter rail to Phoenixville and Pottstown serving the northern part of the county, expansion of the SEPTA service to Coatesville and Atglen, and improving access to the existing Main Line stations).

IIRC, the west chester pike service (former red arrow 104 route) is one of septas busiest bus routes.
Making dedicate lanes for BRT (and maybe even trollybus with IMC) would be the best service, not rail.

Improving bus service on West Chester Pike is probably cheaper than this proposal. With an improved 104 along with an express bus to Exton, you might end up proving that a large rail expenditure to West Chester makes sense.

I went back and read the PennDOT/SEPTA study from 2018, which I think everyone should read if they haven't already:
https://west-chester.com/DocumentCenter ... port-Final

I think the biggest problem is that this project has hit the point where it cannot be done any more incrementally. Going to Cheyney and Westtown would require a substantial expenditure, but probably not produce substantial ridership. If you could break this project into two or three segments after Wawa you might be able to get it done over 10-15 years.

Makes good reading. The last paragraph of the Executive Summary, headed Conclusion, pretty well wraps it up.

According to the SEPTA press release on naming Wawa station, they said schedules will be released soon. How far in advance does SEPTA have to post new schedules?

The August 21st schedules are already delivered to the media/wawa line ticket offices and probably center city. This is quite a bit earlier than usual.

As a very brief rundown:

Weekday Inbound

• 4:43am new first train 3200 out of Wawa

• 5-8am sees significant shifting, removal, and additions

• rest of the day sees a +0-5 minute departure times

• all trains stop at Wawa and Elwyn except a 4:00pm out of Media

Weekday Outbound

• 6am-7pm sees shifting of -2 minutes to +13 minutes

• train 9345 now expresses from penn med to primos

• New last train 8337 departing jefferson at 11:49pm

• Reduction in service past Media as now 4 trains end there up from 1

Weekend schedule is largely unchanged beyond the addition of Wawa