Siemens to manufacture 83 Airo Intercity Trainsets for Amtrak: Design, Delivery, Acceptance

PHLSpecial wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 6:42 pm This order while large seems to be short on seats? I'm curious of they will slap on one or two more cars to make it 11 car sets instead of the current 9 car sets for some of the sets
NEC Current: 1 ACS64 + 6-11 Amfleets
New order: 1 ALC42E + 7 venture cars + 1 cab venture (9 car set)
Possible add-on: 1 ALC42E + 9 venture cars + 1 cab venture (11 car set)
For context New Acela: 2 power cars + 9 passenger cars (11 car set)

I understand funding is not set for project yet. I'm aware there is addition option for 130 trainsets. It's a bit ambitious but the NEC ridership is going to continue to grow

There's a few wrinkles to that, which we can smooth out with bringing in some context. Namely, what the current patterns for the Regional are: NYC-WAS, NYC-Virginia stations, BOS-WAS, BOS-Virginia stations.

NYC-WAS and BOS-WAS are all electric, so would continue to use the ACS64 engines and Amfleet cars for a while. The ALC42's with a split electric adapter/business passenger car would serve all trains going into Virginia (as well as any place it's going to go off-caternary like Pittsburgh, Albany, etc). In addition, the cab car doesn't need much for the controls and can be filled with additional seating.

This isn't to say that you can't extend it. There will be extensions, no doubt about it. I think it'll be more "switch to newer sets to eliminate engine swaps" first before the entire Regionals go to ICTs.

Some one e mailed me with question. Will the Venture cars be able to have same sleeper and diner slide in units installed?. That would mean that the Siemens framework could allow units to slide in as they do on the V-2s. My first thought is not very likely. So that would mean a new compression test of a design for these units to be compatible. Then there is the window locations in the framework. Second thought is highly unlikely that Siemens would want to redesign framework for these present Amtrak slide in units.

west point wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:26 pm Some one e mailed me with question. Will the Venture cars be able to have same sleeper and diner slide in units installed?. That would mean that the Siemens framework could allow units to slide in as they do on the V-2s. My first thought is not very likely. So that would mean a new compression test of a design for these units to be compatible. Then there is the window locations in the framework. Second thought is highly unlikely that Siemens would want to redesign framework for these present Amtrak slide in units.

No. Per Siemens, the Ventures are based on the Viaggio Comfort design, which is suitable for day-trip travel. For sleepers/diners, Amtrak would want Siemens to adapt their Viaggio Classic design, which is already using a modular interior design. This is highly unlikely, though, since Amtrak just got their full order of Viewliner II's in from CAF and they're in operation now.

Could Siemens bid for the replacement of the Superliner replacements based on the Viaggio Twin? Maybe. But that's another thread.

"Been there, done that" (well, Vienna-Graz)

https://youtu.be/RsZBzTPjbrk

While "Amtrak being Amtrak", not sure I'm ready to place my bets, but from first-hand experience, this Viaggio equipment, at least that operated by OBB and CD, is "nice".

In the OeBB coaches, do the seats recline in the conventional fashion, or does the seat simply slide a few inches forward and back*, as I understand is the case with the Venture cars? I'd think about three hours would be the longest comfortable distance for the Ventures. The pitch would also be important, but I haven't seen that mentioned compared with the various Amfleet seating arrangements.

* Didn't the imported French RTGs have seats like that? Something did, but I can't remember what.

Mr. ExCon, I think the "reclining seats" just slide, but I honestly cannot recall. Last year, I was simply too "COVID paranoid" to take any "day trips" away from Salzburg.

This year like many another, I've become "if I get it, I get it; I'm fully VAXED so I won't get all that sick. It's not going to run my life". So, "I'm going over" next month and even though my journey from Munich Ost (Airport) to Salzburg is either an Inter or Euro "City" (Railjets do not "call" there), I'm thinking of a "day trip" to Bolzano, IT which would be Railjet to Innsbruck, a Regional to Brenner, then same on the FS.

But again, I'm mainly going for music at the Festival.

The Avelia Liberty cars are shorter than Siemens Venture cars. IIRC the former are only 65 feet long while the later ate 85 feet. According to the brochure a Siemens Venture Coach can seat up to 70 passengers in an economy configuration (62 in a cab car).

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

ExCon90 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 7:59 pm * Didn't the imported French RTGs have seats like that? Something did, but I can't remember what.

Probably so. The RTL-III rebuild version of the Rohr Turbos certainly did. The seats were admittedly less roomy than those of Amfleets. I don't know who the vendor/supplier was, but I don't think I've ever seen those particular seats in any other vehicle types that I can recall.

This has some interior footage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs9cU0xIIqU

west point wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:26 pm Will the Venture cars be able to have same sleeper and diner slide in units installed?. That would mean that the Siemens framework could allow units to slide in as they do on the V-2s. My first thought is not very likely. So that would mean a new compression test of a design for these units to be compatible. Then there is the window locations in the framework. Second thought is highly unlikely that Siemens would want to redesign framework for these present Amtrak slide in units.

The Viewliner module concept overcomplicated the design in my opinion... why would anyone want to repeat it?

I'd expect to see a sleeper config of some form without private toilets. It would be pretty easy to do aircraft style modules which offer full privacy without structural walls.

Better yet, just install the same type of fully-flat seats you find in business class on most airlines, and you don't need a sleeper at all... You'd get most of the revenue with half the floor space.

Here's everything you want to know about the Siemens RailJets in service on the OBB and CD.

https://www.oebb.at/de/reiseplanung-ser ... ge/railjet

I've ridden some 1500 miles in this equipment since '14 and if they are the "base" of these Amtrak sets, this will indeed be an "upgrade" over the "tired" A-i's I observed when "railfanning at Riverside" this past May, when my hotel room was not yet available.

Incidentally, if 2nd Class looks "a bit tight" do not forget that the Continental Europe "plate" only allows for 2.55m (8'4") of width. Presume equipment for Amtrak will be US "plate" of 10'6".

Some updates around time-frames, initial car roll out, seating specifics (comfier chairs than the Midwest Ventures, ADA improvements), and finish options.

https://railpassengers.org/happening-no ... ks-future/

Shells starting next month, first cars finished by spring.

Cafe car specifics and branding will be released in the future.

I still don't understand why there is an need for an battery APV, just electrify the entire Empire Connection, with overhead wires. Raise the pan when they are at double track portion.

No need for an "special" battery variant, reducing maintenance cost and complexity. And the trains are interoperable and can used on the entire N.E.C.

There's two sides here. First, some context: New York State says you cannot run any sort of combustion engine (steam/diesel/petrol/etc) south of the Harlem River (a 1903 law still on the books) except in cases of emergency. So when you hit the Spuyten Duyvil Railroad Bridge, you can fire up the diesel.

That said, the question becomes "Can you string caternary line up to the bridge?" I think most of us would say "YES, NEXT QUESTION PLEASE" but some of us would look at a few maps and say "Um, what's the clearances on those tunnels and bridges?" and I would add "how safe would they be against the average Manhattan Moron?" Another two questions would be "How long will it take to get it done, past engineering and construction?" and "how much money will it take?"

Answer all of those questions to answer the first one properly. I bet the answer is "We can, but it's easier to just get battery powered engines and costs about the same."

(As a contextual aside, there's a difference between the average Marylander and the average Baltimoron. Marylanders are only slightly crazy on a good day. Baltimorons will walk out in front of you on any crosswalk regardless of their own life.)

I get you point, so let skip electrifying the entire Empire connection for now(But for future low/no emissions in the NY city area is it an good solution). But the question for why not using an ALC42E - Electro-Diesel still stand. Amtrak does now also switching between 3 rail and diesel. The wires are already there so why not using 12 kV~ instead of batteries. The entire sunnyside yard is also under wires, can the train save diesel fuel and no need for an battery APV.

Amtrak's West Side Access is diesel operated except for the tunnels. Third rail begins around 42nd St. going south.