Suspend transit fares instead of the gas tax, climate advocates tell Biden

"President Biden should be pushing for a transit fare holiday, rather than a gas tax holiday, if he's serious about tackling climate change and cutting emissions from America's car-centric transportation system, according to climate advocates and some House Democrats." https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... dium=email

Dumb idea. Paying the fare isn't a core reason as to why people avoid transit.

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eolesen wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:46 am Dumb idea. Paying the fare isn't a core reason as to why people avoid transit.

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But as driving becomes more expensive, lower fares might convince some people.

Dumb idea. School bus, transit bus hold 35-100 gallons. Diesel remains most efficient MPG. Cleaner burning diesel than the past. Don't know how much of transit fare ends up buying fuel from local supplier. Farebox recovery only a % of total transit revenue.

Climate advocates need to go ride the bus & pay the fare.

HenryAlan wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:19 am

eolesen wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:46 am Dumb idea. Paying the fare isn't a core reason as to why people avoid transit.

But as driving becomes more expensive, lower fares might convince some people.

Yeah, no. The fare isn't the reason people avoid transit.

Crime is rising on transit, and MBTA literally just made headlines for installing urine detectors.

There should be *more* transit, especially rail transit, over expanding roads. Repairing, fine. Expanding, no. Transit first. Lay down more rail. Things would be a lot different had Baltimore built out it's subway system.

High transit fares can discourage ridership, but low fares don't attract riders when the service is poor. Alexandria (Virginia)Transit eliminated fares last year and greatly increased service, and it attracted a lot more passengers. I think it would have attracted a lot more passengers just with frequent service. I don't think it's been a problem here, but having no fares can also attract people who don't want transit at all, just a place to hang out (or worse), and that can discourage regular riders.

eolesen wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:29 pm

HenryAlan wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:19 am

eolesen wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:46 am Dumb idea. Paying the fare isn't a core reason as to why people avoid transit.

But as driving becomes more expensive, lower fares might convince some people.

Yeah, no. The fare isn't the reason people avoid transit.

Crime is rising on transit, and MBTA literally just made headlines for installing urine detectors.

That's the kind of thing that people who don't actually use transit would say. Kudos on the MBTA for working to make things more comfortable and safe. But you are really just misdirecting the conversation with such talking points. Individual transportation designed to move 2 tons of equipment with each person is horrendously inefficient. The last thing we should ever do is increase subsidies for driving.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:12 am There should be *more* transit, especially rail transit, over expanding roads. Repairing, fine. Expanding, no. Transit first. Lay down more rail. Things would be a lot different had Baltimore built out it's subway system.

Yup, and try to take action now, to get some semblance of transit upgrade.
https://www.marylandmatters.org/2022/06 ... roups-say/

HenryAlan wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:35 am That's the kind of thing that people who don't actually use transit would say. Kudos on the MBTA for working to make things more comfortable and safe. But you are really just misdirecting the conversation with such talking points. Individual transportation designed to move 2 tons of equipment with each person is horrendously inefficient. The last thing we should ever do is increase subsidies for driving.

Uh, I was a transit user for years... crime and urine on public transit are a fact.

Violent crime on the CTA is up 17% year over year. (https://chicago.suntimes.com/columnists ... washington)

18 people murdered on NYCTA since March 2020
https://nypost.com/2022/05/28/nyc-subwa ... revent-it/

It's getting so bad that my very-left leaning employer downtown Chicago employer who provided transit accounts as a benefit is now actively encouraging people to start working at a location in the suburbs....

Gas tax holiday proposals are all sizzle and no steak. Reducing $0.18 on $5.50 gas amounts to a 3% savings. I do better buying a membership at Sams or Costco (where gas is usually at least $0.25 cheaper than the street pricing) or driving across state lines where I can sometimes save $1 per gallon...

HenryAlan wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:19 am

eolesen wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:46 am Dumb idea. Paying the fare isn't a core reason as to why people avoid transit.

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But as driving becomes more expensive, lower fares might convince some people.

Fare's aren't the issue. Frequency is.
Particularly on the commuter railroads.

Absolutely.

If you're not running trains hourly, or on Sundays, it's not meeting the needs of people who don't drive.

eolesen wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:04 pm Absolutely.

If you're not running trains hourly, or on Sundays, it's not meeting the needs of people who don't drive.

Absolutely

eolesen wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:04 pm Absolutely.

If you're not running trains hourly, or on Sundays, it's not meeting the needs of people who don't drive.

Even running hourly is useless. You have to have trains 30 minutes or better.

Pakenhamtrain wrote: ↑Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:52 pm

eolesen wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:04 pm Absolutely.

If you're not running trains hourly, or on Sundays, it's not meeting the needs of people who don't drive.

Even running hourly is useless. You have to have trains 30 minutes or better.

We did 30 minutes. We're running 15 for rush direction on MARC.