Proposed LIRR Schedule with ESA added

https://new.mta.info/agency/long-island ... /schedules

Hope this "draft" changes as its not a great schedule especially for Ronkonkoma.

With it labeled Grand Central Madison. The area that LIRR took over was Metro North's Madison layup yard. LIRR through MTA Capital Construction moved that yard up in the Bronx which is what now Highbridge Yard in mid 2000's. Of course this is all along the Madison Ave side of the Grand Central Terminal.

Everyone - At the LIST-NRHS June meeting there was mention that GCT-M may open in October 2022...
The prime reason for the timing is the NYS Governor and other NYS elections being held this year...

If ESA to GCT-M opens in October why not run limited interim service at the beginning?
I am thinking operating at minimum shuttle trains from Jamaica along with a few through trains from
Babylon and Ronkonkoma (examples) during peak hours initially so that riders can travel through the
new GCT-M station to see how added access to the GCT area may change their Manhattan commuting...

The full service schedules would not be implemented until the Main Line Third Track Project is completed.

As we all realize the opening of GCT-M is going to be a MAJOR step forward for the LIRR...
Limited initial service with gradual increases to the full schedule should be the way...MACTRAXX

MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:54 am At the LIST-NRHS June meeting there was mention that GCT-M may open in October 2022...
The prime reason for the timing is the NYS Governor and other NYS elections being held this year...

If ESA to GCT-M opens in October why not run limited interim service at the beginning?

Much like the M-1s, which went into limited service at the end of 1968, for Governor Rockefeller to claim
the first cars in service (the MTA was established in 1965 as MCTA).

Interim limited or "soft openings" are not uncommon - NJT opened Secaucus Transfer on a weekend only
basis in September 2003, with full weekday schedules not in service until PATH service returned to the WTC.

The main line electrification had a number of interim service changes until the grand opening of Ronkonkoma
electrification on January 18, 1988.

If the riders and politicians haven't examined the schedules closely, they'll see just about all rush hour trains will stop in Jamaica-and this is progress? More egregious will be the "Brooklyn Shuffle" with riders schlepping to the new platform for shuttle service. I'm surprised the retired planners turned local journalists and internet bloggers haven't written screeds about this in the media, unless of course they were "counseled" not to.

Don't forget the tens of millions of dollars spent on Flatbush-er-Atlantic Terminal with new yard trackage. Not exactly value for the public dollars spent and what is proposed. And, as we get closer to the new schedule implementation, expect the Politicians and civic groups along the route to loudly voice their grievances about the downgrading of service.

For what it's worth, LIRR is pushing the idea that they are actually improving Brooklyn service. No kidding; they are saying that with a straight face.

Head-end View wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:01 pm For what it's worth, LIRR is pushing the idea that they are actually improving Brooklyn service. No kidding; they are saying that with a straight face.

PR persons can only announce what they are told. As well put best spin on service or soon find another job.

MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:54 am
As we all realize the opening of GCT-M is going to be a MAJOR step forward for the LIRR...
Limited initial service with gradual increases to the full schedule should be the way...MACTRAXX

That is a very 2 edge sword. What if the graduated service over whelm the trains that do operate? OTOHmaybe very few persons ride waiting for more service? I have no idea and do any officials really know?

Probably better to implement the new service gradually. Doing too much too fast can cause a fiasco.

A time-tested practice: when the Erie moved its suburban services from Jersey City to Hoboken on the DL&W (some time before the merger -- 1958?) they moved the off-peak weekday and the weekend trains to Hoboken for a whole timetable period, then moved the weekday peak-hour trains at the next timetable change, and afaik it all went smoothly. They also created a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for timetable collectors, showing all Erie Main Line and Bergen County services (and I think also the System tt) using both terminals.

Going from every 30 mins to every 20 mins on Atlantic is an improvement for Brooklyn people - most of whom need to get to Jamaica above all else.

I'd prefer an even 15 mins (2tph to Long Beach and to West Hempstead for example) - but if it has to be a shuttle, it should be subway frequency - say every 10 mins. And $2.75.

For ESA, I agree on gradual service. Clockface out to Port Washington and clockface to Huntingdon, say. 3-4 trains per hour, let it bed in on specific routes.

CLE - I am going to reply to your post as follows:

1-Agreed - The Atlantic Branch would run every 15 minutes - first with the hourly West Hempstead trains...
One of these two branches - Hempstead or Far Rockaway - would make the through service half hourly...
There would be TWO shuttles running between Atlantic Terminal and Jamaica for FOUR train per hour service...

2-Unless the Atlantic Branch service is totally separated from the LIRR and run as a rapid transit route a $2.75
fare for which would be a new NYCT Subway route would NOT be implemented - the new off-peak City Ticket
and Atlantic Ticket for $5 on the same day at all times would remain in effect on a LIRR-operated service...

3-New interim service means LIMITED operation at the beginning - with no more than ONE train per branch
chosen to operate directly into GCT-M per HOUR during off-peak - and maybe TWO maximum HOURLY during
PEAK hours again from the chosen eastern branches...This service would increase to GCT-M on a GRADUAL
basis depending on how ridership demand changes - and along with the completion of track work supporting
ESA service increases - such as the FULL completion of the Main Line Third Track Project...

The released schedules SHOULD show how LIRR service would be after GCT-M is FULLY established and trackwork
has been completed at some point during 2023 - initial interim service with an October 2022 opening date is the
PROPER way to introduce LIRR commuters to GCT-M in just over three months time from now...MACTRAXX

With whatever degree of consensus we come up with here, how might we let LIRR / MTA know what we think as a group? And how do we get them to provide 'normal' full branch schedules for each branch instead of these chopped up idiocies?

The media have been paid to cover the Brooklyn service revision as an enhancement. You will get little adverse publicity about this change.

Your best access to the Railroad's planning is through the Governor's Office. There is a group there who read mail concerning public authorities and pass it along under the Governor's name. It's read and acted upon by specific individuals in the authorities. They also direct, control and fund the media narrative.

Looking over the schedules, I don't think they're that bad. Service from diesel territory is poor but that's kind of unrelated to ESA. It looks like transferring at Jamaica will get you a train for the other terminal without much of a wait. Things are a little less flexible for Port Washington riders in terms of choosing a Manhattan terminal.

I just wish the trains wouldn't crawl during the peak hours. If they figure that out, couldn't they speed up the scheduled times?