All things Pennsylvanian AND Keystone West

The idea floated around to extend one of these to Cleveland. Is that still on the table?

That bribe to NS seems ridiculous. We are talking about 1 additional round trip per day! I have to think that the relatively recent increase in 42-43 lateness is blackmail on the part of NS.

WashingtonPark wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 3:25 pm Sure glad AMTRAK didn't want to add 2 trains to the schedule. NS would probably want a couple billion dollars in taxpayer money to triple track everything between Harrisburg and Chicago to make sure AMTRAK sitting in Pittsburgh didn't hold up their trains coming in from the west.

Yeah, they couldn't stand to wait for a crossover to happen to get into the Pittsburgh station.

JoeG wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 3:49 pm That bribe to NS seems ridiculous. We are talking about 1 additional round trip per day! I have to think that the relatively recent increase in 42-43 lateness is blackmail on the part of NS.

This is a handout to Norfolk Southern, but it is probably even more of a bribe to get western Pennsylvania (read Republican for the most part) to support Amtrak and SEPTA spending elsewhere. A good portion of the state's transportation budget is ensuring every region get their extortion payments.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 5:59 pm

WashingtonPark wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 3:25 pm Sure glad AMTRAK didn't want to add 2 trains to the schedule. NS would probably want a couple billion dollars in taxpayer money to triple track everything between Harrisburg and Chicago to make sure AMTRAK sitting in Pittsburgh didn't hold up their trains coming in from the west.

Yeah, they couldn't stand to wait for a crossover to happen to get into the Pittsburgh station.

Don't forget Amtrak having to rebuild every freight yard between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg so NS won't hold up either of the trains. Let's play pile on the taxpayer.

Links to

Bipartisan Infrastructure Law Allows PennDOT, Norfolk Southern to Move Toward Improved Freight and Passenger Rail Service in Western Pa.
https://www.governor.pa.gov/newsroom/go ... estern-pa/
Press Release from the Office of Governor Wolf

Amtrak Pennsylvanian RTC Analysis | Final Report
https://www.penndot.gov/Documents/Amtra ... Report.pdf
Norfolk Southern | September 2021

The Pennsy had at least 4 tracks all the way to Pittsburgh. I know they now have 3 tacks around Horseshoe Curve. Anybody know how many tracks are on the rest of the route between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh? I can't quite see that NS has a legitimate need for more facilities to run an additional passenger train. Of course, if they can get free money, why not try for it?

JoeG wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 2:05 pm The Pennsy had at least 4 tracks all the way to Pittsburgh. I know they now have 3 tacks around Horseshoe Curve. Anybody know how many tracks are on the rest of the route between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh? I can't quite see that NS has a legitimate need for more facilities to run an additional passenger train. Of course, if they can get free money, why not try for it?

Aren't they the ones to took it out? So no free money for them. They have the money to rebuild the railyards that they decommission and the 4th track. Tbh I wish the state of PA bought the Keystone West and East lines and have a neutral dispatcher. Amtrak is only adding one additional train...

JoeG wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 2:05 pm The Pennsy had at least 4 tracks all the way to Pittsburgh. I know they now have 3 tacks around Horseshoe Curve. Anybody know how many tracks are on the rest of the route between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh? I can't quite see that NS has a legitimate need for more facilities to run an additional passenger train. Of course, if they can get free money, why not try for it?

Two in most of the areas, as I've looked at it through Google Maps Satellite View... too many times. Not only that, I think only one station can serve both tracks: Johnstown (although looking at it again, it may need some expansion on that island platform)

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 9:59 am

JoeG wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 2:05 pm The Pennsy had at least 4 tracks all the way to Pittsburgh. I know they now have 3 tacks around Horseshoe Curve. Anybody know how many tracks are on the rest of the route between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh? I can't quite see that NS has a legitimate need for more facilities to run an additional passenger train. Of course, if they can get free money, why not try for it?

Two in most of the areas, as I've looked at it through Google Maps Satellite View... too many times. Not only that, I think only one station can serve both tracks: Johnstown (although looking at it again, it may need some expansion on that island platform)

Greensburg has two tracks if a platform on each side. Looks like always had two tracks.

Latrobe has three tracks with two tracks serviced by one platform (cross track boarding to the middle track). Looks like always had two tracks.

Johnstown has three tracks with one track serviced from one platform (looks like a particularly difficult spot to have more than one track serviced).

Altoona has five tracks with two tracks serviced by one platform (cross track boarding from the north side of the right of way).

Tyrone has two tracks with one serviced by one platform. Looks like there were three tracks there at one time.

Huntington has two tracks with two serviced by one platform (cross tracking boarding from the north side of right of way). Looks like there were three or four tracks previously.

Lewistown has two tracks in the middle of an interlocking with two serviced by one platform (cross track boarding in the interlocking). Looks like there were three or four tracks previously.

By looking at each station, I guess "high levels" are not an option anywhere other than Pittsburgh, Altoona, Johnstown, or Harrisburg.

rcthompson04 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 10:59 am Greensburg has two tracks if a platform on each side. Looks like always had two tracks.

And operates with both platforms, if I remember correctly.

Latrobe has three tracks with two tracks serviced by one platform (cross track boarding to the middle track). Looks like always had two tracks.

...operates against the full platform off one track. Needs another platform and crossover bridge for full service... but this is a flag stop.

Johnstown has three tracks with one track serviced from one platform (looks like a particularly difficult spot to have more than one track serviced).

And is used on both sides.

Altoona has five tracks with two tracks serviced by one platform (cross track boarding from the north side of the right of way).

And is used only from the nearest-to-platform track. However, there's space for an island platform and a far platform.

Tyrone has two tracks with one serviced by one platform. Looks like there were three tracks there at one time.

Tyrone... if I remember correctly, there is no platform -- it's serviced from the crossroad. Plus it's a flag stop.

Huntington has two tracks with two serviced by one platform (cross tracking boarding from the north side of right of way). Looks like there were three or four tracks previously.

Yep, plenty of room for a third track and another platform.

Lewistown has two tracks in the middle of an interlocking with two serviced by one platform (cross track boarding in the interlocking). Looks like there were three or four tracks previously.

This station is best moved, to be honest... or the interlock moved east past the curve, a third track put in to access the yard to the west of the station, and a bridge to put in for two platform access.

By looking at each station, I guess "high levels" are not an option anywhere other than Pittsburgh, Altoona, Johnstown, or Harrisburg.

I wish Pittsburgh would have high-level access, to be honest. There's plenty of room for two trains with high level access and ramps, plus a low-level for the Capitol Limited. Makes no sense.

What I find frustrating about this development is the 5-year timeline, not because I have any idea of how long such projects should take. But because I think the railroad is betting on getting most of the infrastructure, then watching a new administration kill the proposal for a 2nd train to Pittsburgh.

Tyrone has a platform now

ryanwc wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 2:42 pm What I find frustrating about this development is the 5-year timeline, not because I have any idea of how long such projects should take. But because I think the railroad is betting on getting most of the infrastructure, then watching a new administration kill the proposal for a 2nd train to Pittsburgh.

Republicans are pushing the second train to and from Pittsburgh. If this is the extortion money needed to keep SEPTA and the Keystone Service funded write the check.

Thanks for that info. It does make me feel better about the situation.