Amfleets in Preservation and Railfan Generations

I was chatting one night with a friend my age (19) and a friend of his who is in his 70s when the subject of the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad came up. I offhand sent a photo of two Amfleets owned by Rail Excursion Management Company but leased by the WMSR for their execution trains. The older fellow muttered about how seeing them in preservation made him super feel old. I originally interpreted this remark as simply “old-timers being old,” but a few days ago this comment resurfaced in my head, and I slowly began to realize that this opinion about Amfleets might not be exclusive to the older generations…

It doesn’t matter what generation of railfan you are a part of, from Boomer to Zoomer, we’ve all had this equipment longer than we care to realize. Amfleet Is were delivered in 1975, while the Amfleet IIs were delivered in 1981. 46 and 40 years ago! With a statistic like that the good ol’ Amfleets seem almost immortal. When asking a railfan about Amtrak, they are one of the first things that come to mind, regardless of age. They are so ubiquitous an icon they span every living generation like nothing else in railroading…

But let’s face it, the Amfleets, as well as most of the equipment that has carried Amtrak through the last 30 years, will be retired in the next 10. The Acela Is, ACS-64s, P42s, Amfleets, and Superliners will end up replaced by Acela IIs, dual-mode diesel/electric trainsets, SC-44s, and Venture coaches. The older stuff will end up either scrapped, on commuter railroads, or most shockingly, in preservation.

I was curious to think what people of my generation (late Millennial-early Zoomer) thought of this possibility, and the answer was surprising!

Asking around in my railfan friend group, which ranges from 16 to 25 years of age, the response was always the same. “Amfleets are such an Amtrak staple that it is going to be weird seeing them in preservation.” “I can’t imagine an Acela and an Amfleet ending up in the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania!” “When the Amfleets are finally retired, I'll feel old.” That last remark came from a 20-year-old!

So yes, my suspicion about Amfleets turned out to be true, at least to an extent. I think this is great. So often the older and younger generations in any large group have wildly different outlooks as to be incompatible. Not so with these classic passenger cars. There will come a day where Amfleets begin popping up in preservation like the pox. A day that will be truly bizarre for all of us railfans…

Better start preparing!

I'm wondering what will have to go to make room... not just for Amfleets but Superliners and F40s, P42s, etc.

Tourist roads will soak up a few, but they want operable equipment over heritage. Nobody minds that the Tarantula now runs with a F9 or Geep vs the steamer from 25 years ago. That's what *they* grew up with.

Preservation poses a challenge as collections are pretty much full at the major museums. Do you let dilapidated wood or steel coaches go? Or maybe a steamer that duplicates another in the collection. Buy more land and build more track?

IRM has the land and support to throw down more outside storage, but many museums are landlocked. Some are not on live rail anymore. It's going to be some tough decisions in the next 10 years.

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VIA is also due for fleet replacement, but I doubt anyone would want an LRC (their equivalent of Amfleet).

Amfleet Is have racked up the mileage over the years. Let's be just a little conservative and assume they all make one round trip a day, every day since they have entered service. Some math follows after some facts:
Last Amfleet I to enter service was in 1977, and let's also assume on the last day 13-31-1977 for best case scenario. By 12-31-2021 these cars will have been in service for 54 years.
A round trip on the NEC (DC to Boston) is 914 rail miles, not including extensions into Vermont, New York, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and North Carolina.
Therefore, 914 miles per day x 365 days per year x 54 years = 18,014,940 rail miles. (18 million miles).
Of course, not every Amfleet I ran every day nor the same route - yet potentially 18 million miles is very long distance to run anything.
In retrospect, the previous generation of lightweight Budd and Pullman stainless steel "coach or chair" cars did not run as far. Assuming the last run by Amtrak was 12-31-1977, and the first was run by Burlington in 1934. Assuming the very worse scenario, lightweight stainless steel cars ran for 43 years. As for the NEC, the Budd Pioneer 3 cars were introduced in 1958. Their lifespan for Amtrak lasted less than 20 years. The same Budd designed trucks on the Pioneer 3 cars are still used by Amtrak today with the Amfleets.

Difficult to believe these will be many years of life remaining with the Amfleets when Amtrak eventually retires them.

First Amfleets delivered July 1975, last June 1977. However the bulk of the 492 car fleet was in service by
1/1/1977, and all corridor service was fully Amfleet by early 1977.

electricron wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:20 pm Budd Pioneer 3 cars were introduced in 1958. Their lifespan for Amtrak lasted less than 20 years.

1958-1990 as suburban MUs (aka Silverliner I).

I would not be surprised if someone finds a way to turn a good few of them into sleepers, diners, proper lounges, and office cars.

electricron wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:20 pmLast Amfleet I to enter service was in 1977, and let's also assume on the last day 13-31-1977 for best case scenario. By 12-31-2021 these cars will have been in service for 54 years.

A minor point: 1977 was 44 years ago, not 54.
Regardless, what the Amfleet replaced was generally not as old as Amfleet will be when they’re replaced and it’s hard to picture the NE Corridor without Amfleet cars running on it. I do hope we do see some preserved even if I find the interiors to feel dark and claustrophobic due to the small windows and rounded profile of the car bodies.

chrisf wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:03 am A minor point: 1977 was 44 years ago, not 54.
Regardless, what the Amfleet replaced was generally not as old as Amfleet will be when they’re replaced and it’s hard to picture the NE Corridor without Amfleet cars running on it. I do hope we do see some preserved even if I find the interiors to feel dark and claustrophobic due to the small windows and rounded profile of the car bodies.

44 years, thanks for the correction.
New math follows:
44 x 914 x 365 = 14,678,840, or 14.7 million miles.
Still a lot of miles and wear and tear on the Amfleet I.

But Amfleet -2s have more mile and wear and tear than AM-1s. Would AM-1s have more wear and tear on the NEC V. Am-2s LD on the freight RRs poorer tracks? . Also note that AM-2s have 40% more miles than AM-1s. Those numbers have to be changed in an unknown way as the 60+ AM-1s that were in long term non operational storage until the 2019 restorations. That make the other AM-1s have more mileage than the stored AM-1s. That makes for knowing just how much closer in mileage the continuous operating AM-1s are than all the AM-2s ? .

electricron wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:20 pm In retrospect, the previous generation of lightweight Budd and Pullman stainless steel "coach or chair" cars did not run as far. Assuming the last run by Amtrak was 12-31-1977, and the first was run by Burlington in 1934. Assuming the very worse scenario, lightweight stainless steel cars ran for 43 years.

Their lives didn't end with the end of their use by Amtrak. There are still close to (if not more than) a hundred of those 1930-1950 built Budd, ACF and Pullman cars still rolling in private ownership.

Amfleet is a coach. A few are half a** lounge cars with a tiny 3 across coach section. What historic technology advances do they represent.

Heck, they’ve been FRA safety waivered for years for their tiny windows.

Make them razor blades.

west point wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:37 am But Amfleet -2s have more mile and wear and tear than AM-1s. Would AM-1s have more wear and tear on the NEC V. Am-2s LD on the freight RRs poorer tracks? . Also note that AM-2s have 40% more miles than AM-1s. Those numbers have to be changed in an unknown way as the 60+ AM-1s that were in long term non operational storage until the 2019 restorations. That make the other AM-1s have more mileage than the stored AM-1s. That makes for knowing just how much closer in mileage the continuous operating AM-1s are than all the AM-2s ? .

The youngest Amfleet 2 entered service in 1983. So by 12-31-2021 they will be at least 38 years old. Assuming they ran every day all day long averaging 50 mph, they potentially have ran ???? miles.
Math follows:
50 x 24 x 365 x 38 = 16,644,000, or 16.6 million miles.
Of course the Amfleet 2s did not run all day every day for 38 years.

The important data point with Amfleet 2s is what was their usage on average, I assumed the maximum of 24 hours per day, but it could have been as low or even lower than 12 hours per day. With the Amfleet 1s, I assumed one round trip on the NEC DC to Boston every day, but in actually it could have been more miles or even less miles per day on average. I had made assumptions that could be close to being accurate or way off. After all it is just an exercise of logic of what could be.

So instead of assuming 914 rail miles a day for Amfleet 1s I has chosen the 24 hours per day using an average speed of 70 mph - which NEC regional trains accomplish on the NEC daily.
Instead of around 14 million miles, the new total would be ????? million miles.
44 years x 365 days per year x 24 hours per day x 70 miles per hour = 26,980,800 or 27 million miles.
27 million miles is almost twice the 14 million miles calculated earlier using a different assumption.

Again, with this assumption how realistic is it that they are operating 24 hours per day on average? What could be is not what is. Short of an actually odometer reading on each car, or an accounting of mileage with a paper trail, we peasants will never know. I'm not even sure Amtrak tracks every cars mileage in any way at all.

Which brings us back to the often repeated report or suggesting that the Amfleet 2s have racked up more miles in less years and at slower average speeds than Amfleet 1s. How???? The only variable that could explain that is how long they are used every day on average. How often do we see most Amfleet 1s running at 3 am every morning, when most Amfleet 2s will be running? Likewise, how often do we see Amfleet 2s running at noon every day when most Amfleet 1s will be running? So how often they run and or do not run per day on average is an important variable in this mathematical exercise....

Does anyone know if any amfleets have been repainted by heritage/tourist railroad groups? I thought I saw a photo of a preserved amfleet in a custom Budd Livery for some sort of excursion about a month ago.