Siemens to manufacture 83 Airo Intercity Trainsets for Amtrak: Design, Delivery, Acceptance

njtmnrrbuff wrote: ↑Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:46 pm I have been hearing the news and seeing pictures from other railfans of the Keystones operating with a Sprinter on each end. The same thing goes with running a P42 on both ends of the trains that run up and down the Springfield Line.

Isn't that overkill and a pretty crazy waste of power? Seems like an incompetent practice on Amtrak's part.

njtmnrrbuff wrote: ↑Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:46 pm I have been hearing the news and seeing pictures from other railfans of the Keystones operating with a Sprinter on each end. The same thing goes with running a P42 on both ends of the trains that run up and down the Springfield Line.

I know its only a "few train sets" but Springfield Shuttles with two P42s on both ends are clearly overkill, but more importantly, every P42 is kinda needed right now with the shortage that is apparently present. The Ex-Metroliner Cab Cars are still very much needed. A few were in Penn Coach Yard - not sure if they are in need of repair (scheduled for an upcoming trip to the Bear repair shops perhaps?). I did see the F40 NPCU's lined up in a row at Chicago Yard last month - not sure if they are back in service or not, as I know they too were down for the count.

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 13, 2021 6:35 pm

njtmnrrbuff wrote: ↑Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:46 pm I have been hearing the news and seeing pictures from other railfans of the Keystones operating with a Sprinter on each end. The same thing goes with running a P42 on both ends of the trains that run up and down the Springfield Line.

Isn't that overkill and a pretty crazy waste of power? Seems like an incompetent practice on Amtrak's part.

Would you prefer that they cancel the runs when they don't have the equipment (cab cars) to operate push-pull service on the Keystone and Amtrak operated Hartford Line trains? This problem should go away" once the new Siemens equipment starts being delivered.

With Amtrak starting gulf coast service and the second Regional to Roanoke more equipment is already being required for service. Now with the new Amtrak legislation passed with the push for more capacity we might see any new equipment gobbled up with the AMs filling the need. They may be needed for the capacity? Have no idea how it is going to shake out but we best not count the older equipment down for the count. May depend on how Gardener is held at bay.

The state supported route in the Gulf Coast might be delayed some more but when it starts, it will probably use Amfleet Is and horizons.

While it may be overkill to have a Sprinter on both ends of a Keystone plus a P42 on both ends of the Keystone, as mentioned, every bit of motive power that is supposed to run where it is supposed to is needed. There are 60 something Sprinter motors active on the roster and there should just be enough to cover a few Keystone trains when needed.

njtmnrrbuff wrote: ↑Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:21 pm The state supported route in the Gulf Coast might be delayed some more but when it starts, it will probably use Amfleet Is and horizons.

While it may be overkill to have a Sprinter on both ends of a Keystone plus a P42 on both ends of the Keystone, as mentioned, every bit of motive power that is supposed to run where it is supposed to is needed. There are 60 something Sprinter motors active on the roster and there should just be enough to cover a few Keystone trains when needed.

If Amtrak were to do that I suggest they put a Sprinter on end and a P42 or ALC 42 on the other end so they could use it for the Pennsylvanian and Keystone service or even long distance routes

Wait a minute, I don't think there's actually a pair of P42s AND a pair of ACS-64s on the Keystones or the Pennsylvanian. The Keystones don't operate with diesels at all unless there's some kind of outage.

This may be over the top. If Amtrak follows the dictates of the legislation they will need more than one loco and an additional one for those trains that now have2 locos assigned . The extra cars that will be assigned to these trains will need the extra power to maintain schedule. The Star, Crescent, Capitol, and Cardinal in the east have enough hills to need the extra power. But I do not want to see the ALCs in trouble. So Have a P-42 lead and ALCs run 2nd or third. Then when a train encounters the next crossing incident the ALCs will not take the hit.
Now the engineers might be instructed to have the ALCs provide HEP as that will be more fuel efficient and the lead P-42 will not have to have high idle supplying HEP and causing that loco to loose more tractive power than the ALC will loose supplying HEP.

Everyone should prefer for P-42s to suffer wreck damage instead of the new ALCs

Exception would be in winter when the Builder and CAL Z are going into snow all ALCs should be dispatched on those trains to provide more reliable AC traction in snow.

Train60 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:50 pm

According to Amtrak's Equipment Asset Line Plan there are:

• 8 retired F40PH diesel locomotives
• 13 stored P-40 locomotives

Maybe they could be depowered and run as "driving trailers"?

Gilbert B Norman wrote:

John_Perkowski wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:27 pm If Amtrak wants to store 200 cars, then they need to lease or buy covered storage trackage in California or Arizona, where there will be less deterioration due to wet and cold weather.

Colonel, why is it then that CRAF aircraft can "snooze under the stars" without hangars. If they can be adequately secured, why would stored indefinitely retired Amtrak equipment be any different?

Point of order... CRAF aircraft are literally commandeered (with crews) from scheduled service. Airlines had to cancel revenue flights when CRAF was activated to shuttle refugees from Afghanistan two months ago.

Airplanes CAN be stored in the desert and return to service fairly easily, as are tanks and other military equipment at NG armories and Army storage depots around the country. All they have for security is a good deal of concertina wire and a remote location tends to deter most vandalism.

I think the bigger challenge to hanging on to cars "just in case" is optics. If they are good enough for surge service, then there was no real sense of urgency to replace them.

Get 'em off the books quickly or risk having some of the existing orders and options canceled when there's a new Speaker of the House.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

Is Amtrak shy about using cab cars due to the reduced engineer protection at grade crossings?

A few years ago I rode one of the Springfield shuttles being led by a cab car. They had the car blocked off with yellow tape to prevent passengers from sitting in the front half!

nkloudon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:43 am Is Amtrak shy about using cab cars due to the reduced engineer protection at grade crossings?

A few years ago I rode one of the Springfield shuttles being led by a cab car. They had the car blocked off with yellow tape to prevent passengers from sitting in the front half!

I have never seen that on a Keystone, but there are no public at grade crossings left.

The problem with having a Sprinter coupled to the train outside electric territory is the increased fuel consumption costs per trip. Only no more than about 1/4 of the journey does a FL-NYC train require an electric locomotive. The remaining 3/4 of the time diesels would be essentially hauling dead weight.

NH2060 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 14, 2021 8:16 pm The problem with having a Sprinter coupled to the train outside electric territory is the increased fuel consumption costs per trip. Only no more than about 1/4 of the journey does a FL-NYC train require an electric locomotive. The remaining 3/4 of the time diesels would be essentially hauling dead weight.

Yes using the Sprinters anywhere outside the NEC or Keystone makes no sense.

eolesen wrote: ↑Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:09 am Point of order... CRAF aircraft are literally commandeered (with crews) from scheduled service. Airlines had to cancel revenue flights when CRAF was activated to shuttle refugees from Afghanistan two months ago.

Off topic Mr. Olesen, but thank you for clarifying that for an aircraft to be in the CRAF - Civil Reserve Aircraft Fleet - the aircraft must be available "wet"; airworthy and with flight crews qualified to fly it.