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Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1582518  by STrRedWolf
 
Ridgefielder wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:57 am Not just modern cars. I think there have been signs telling passengers not to linger in vestibules for as long as there have been vestibules.
I keep hearing the announcements of "Don't stand in the vestibules" and keep wondering "um, the average Baltimoron doesn't know what a 'vestibule' is. What's a better way to say that..."
 #1582519  by photobug56
 
As said on the NYC subway, Between Cars! Unless, of course, one of these decades you happen to find yourself on one of the very small number of new trains that are open between cars. If they ever arrive.

On LIRR modern cars, just the short space between cars. On the old rust bucket fleet, the ends were wide open to the weather, the doors, depending on car type, either centrally controlled when that worked, or opened or closed by passengers. Place where many hung out to drink or smoke, party, etc. Or on one train, at the very front of the first car, a nice place to hang out in the breeze to listen to the one or two GP38-2's on the train home.
 #1582520  by ExCon90
 
I don't recall the exact wording, but I think I remember seeing, when SEPTA's SLV's appeared, the standard warning not to stand in the vestibules -- with nary a vestibule in sight. Maybe they could just say "do not stand in door areas." (Btw, where is the crumple zone in the SLVs, and in all the M series on Metro-North?)
 #1583328  by StLouSteve
 
Anyone in the industry know if climate change (more frequent temp swings including hotter days in the fall/winter) is showing up in the form of more frequent sun kinks appearing in welded rail in the last decade or so?

Has any carrier revised the install instructions (acceptable temp range) for CWR?
 #1583350  by BandA
 
It hasn't been said whether or not a kinked rail was involved. I would think the frequency of heat restrictions would get the railroads to sit up and take notice, but the maximum annual temperature probably hasn't gone up much.
 #1583462  by justalurker66
 
Release date OCT 26, 2021.
https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pag ... ewD1CYQX_w

On September 25, 2021, about 3:47 p.m. local time, westbound National Railroad Passenger Corporation (Amtrak) train 7 (also known as the Empire Builder) carrying 154 people derailed in a right-hand curve at milepost 1014.57 on the BNSF Railway (BNSF) Hi Line Subdivision near Joplin, Montana. As a result of the derailment, 3 passengers died, and 44 passengers and crew were transported to local hospitals with injuries. Damage was estimated by Amtrak to be over $22 million.

The maximum allowable speed on this section of track was 79 mph for passenger trains. The PTC system was enabled and operating at the time of the derailment. Preliminary data from the leading locomotive’s event recorder showed that train 7 was traveling between 75 and 78 mph when its emergency brakes were activated. The locomotives and the first two railcars remained on the rail. The weather was clear with no precipitation at the time of the accident.

NTSB’s investigation is ongoing. Future investigative activity will focus on track and engineering, equipment, survival factors, and passenger railcar crashworthiness.
 #1583468  by STrRedWolf
 
justalurker66 wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:28 am NTSB’s investigation is ongoing. Future investigative activity will focus on track and engineering, equipment, survival factors, and passenger railcar crashworthiness.
I'm reading through the blurb posted... and this last sentence quoted makes me lean away from human factors... and maybe a sun kink. Maybe. I could be wrong.

I think the year-after report will be more informative, but we may have a 60-day report here.
 #1583478  by photobug56
 
Just curious, but historically what sort of problems (keeping heat kink in mind) could happen where the loco and first couple cars stay on the rails while later cars don't? So kink? Or axle defect? Etc.
 #1583490  by Gilbert B Norman
 
"Frat Boy and Sorority Sister made up", so it's time for a "repin"; the Preliminary is out:

https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/in ... derailment

Fair Use:
Railway Age reproduces the NTSB preliminary report here:

“Investigation Details
“What Happened
​“This information is preliminary and will be either supplemented or corrected during the course of the investigation.​ Release date OCT 26, 2021.

“On September 25, 2021, about 3:47 p.m. local time, westbound National Railroad Passenger Corporation (Amtrak) train 7 (also known as the Empire Builder) carrying 154 people derailed in a right-hand curve at milepost 1014.57 on the BNSF Railway (BNSF) Hi Line Subdivision near Joplin, Montana.[1] (See figure.) As a result of the derailment, 3 passengers died, and 44 passengers and crew were transported to local hospitals with injuries. Damage was estimated by Amtrak to be over $22 million.
 #1583543  by F40
 
I was surprised that the preliminary report did not tell us anything of note besides some technical details. I thought they would incorporate any facts they saw from the video, or the aftermath of the tracks, etc. PTC not being activated simply ruled out a seemingly obvious factor. Speaking of which, can PTC detect kinks in the rail if it is not broken? Of course piecing the facts together to find the cause and effect will take time.
 #1583550  by photobug56
 
There are plenty of times NTSB has reason to not say anything worth hearing, such as in a plane crash at sea with no black box recovery (or telemetry). Not the case here, and ignorant me figures it can't take all that long to check things like the axles, brakes, etc. Enough to give a feel. BUT - I don't know that. None of us do. But waiting for a tidbit on something this important is frustrating.
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