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  • Vaccine mandate for Amtrak employees

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1582627  by Bob Roberts
 
eolesen wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:36 pm If you're vaccinated, you're protected, so it shouldn't matter if you're sitting next to someone unvaccinated.
Your post is misinformation.

Vaccination lowers the recipient’s risk of infection, it does not eliminate that risk and no one in the epidemiology community has suggested such (no vaccine is able to provide 100% protection). The amount of risk reduction provided by a vaccine is dependent upon the strain of the virus you are exposed to, the amount of virus and your time since vaccination. Given that vaccines make you ‘safer’ (but not completely protected) then exposure to an infected person will clearly increase risk of transmission. Since the unvaxed are significantly more likely to be carrying the virus it certainly matters if you are sitting beside them.
Last edited by Bob Roberts on Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 #1582717  by west point
 
Do you want an non vaccinated engineer on your Amtrak trip get ill and trying to work thru it have a incident ? Not very likely but it cn happen. I know a cargo airline that ad the captain suddenly die in flight and co-pilot had to make emergency landing. The captain had an undiagnosed heart problem same as Pete Marivich and Jim Henson the muppeteer. Baniff airlines had a captain that passed on trip from Hawaii to Dallas.
 #1582719  by Railjunkie
 
First and foremost a few things about the gloom and doomsday scenarios of sick non vaccinated engineers. Most everywhere Amtrak travels has some form of PTC it will STOP your train if I does not like what your engineer is doing. PERIOD. You will stop rather abruptly. Inconvenienced if they are sick yes, die I doubt it.

Second you have non vaccinated crew running trains currently I don't recall hearing or seeing anything about any Covid related accidents or delays. Most of us have all run trains under the weather with colds the flu stomach issues I would be willing to bet a few have done it with Covid. Its work and get paid or stay home and loose a days pay. Sorry kids no sick days for T&E here.
 #1582726  by STrRedWolf
 
Railjunkie wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:41 am First and foremost a few things about the gloom and doomsday scenarios of sick non vaccinated engineers. Most everywhere Amtrak travels has some form of PTC it will STOP your train if I does not like what your engineer is doing. PERIOD. You will stop rather abruptly. Inconvenienced if they are sick yes, die I doubt it.

Second you have non vaccinated crew running trains currently I don't recall hearing or seeing anything about any Covid related accidents or delays. Most of us have all run trains under the weather with colds the flu stomach issues I would be willing to bet a few have done it with Covid. Its work and get paid or stay home and loose a days pay. Sorry kids no sick days for T&E here.
Now that it's the weekend and I have a bit more brainpower to devote to the forums... I get what you're saying. On a plane, the risk of crashing is high. On a train, that risk is low, lower with PTC.

So what you end up with a dead engineer is... a four hour train delay, and maybe some bus subsitution. Maybe an engine swap. That's it.

Now lets go from engineer to the "cabin crew" or attendants and conductors. You got an asymptomatic crew member who somehow got a false negative. Still masking everywhere, and all the nutcases who say "no more!" tossed out. That rare case of transmission happens... and two weeks later it's fatal (or debilitating) to a passenger.

Guess who the family of that passenger is going to sue?

That's right, the carrier, even though it may be prohibited by law. There's going to be a liability claim that has to get adjudicated or arbitrated. Ether way, even to get it dismissed, it's going to cost money.

Settle for a ton of cash, or save it for free by having everyone get their shots which are already paid for by the government. Hmmm... decisions decisions...

...and guess what. We have a way "out": If an employee claims a religious exception, they should carry personal liability insurance deducted from their pay. Medical is understandable (and yes, folks want to fake it, we can verify that). Religious... well, if you practice what you preach, I can see it. But if you're against stem cells but yet you took Tylenol in the past 20 years, I have to question your faith. Thus, the liability insurance -- put your money where your mouth is.
 #1582735  by WashingtonPark
 
I had a supervisor who always said "Nothing is too much trouble for absolute safety." This was especially true when it meant more work for the employee. I said that maybe we ought to have two operators so if the train was in ATO and I dropped dead somebody would be able to stop the train if a person was on the tracks. I also suggested that 65 was too fast as operating all trains at restricted speed would virtually eliminate the chance of any fatalities. All of a sudden absolute safety was no longer attainable. And it's not obtainable with covid. I am fully vaccinated and while I hate wearing a mask if on AMTRAK I will obviously do so. My chances of getting anything but a mild illness from an unvaccinated person is virtually zero. If they are asymptomatic it is zero. If you don't want to be vaccinated that's on you. You take the covid risk everywhere you go and will pay the price if you get it. Before vaccinations I could see restrictions. Now we have preventative and recovery options for what is surly endemic. It is time for the government to get their knee off our necks and let us go back to assessing the risks for ourselves. With the exception of people who are in constant contact with the immune compromised in their jobs the "kings" of government need to back off.
 #1582740  by Railjunkie
 
STrRedWolf wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:31 am
Railjunkie wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:41 am First and foremost a few things about the gloom and doomsday scenarios of sick non vaccinated engineers. Most everywhere Amtrak travels has some form of PTC it will STOP your train if I does not like what your engineer is doing. PERIOD. You will stop rather abruptly. Inconvenienced if they are sick yes, die I doubt it.

Second you have non vaccinated crew running trains currently I don't recall hearing or seeing anything about any Covid related accidents or delays. Most of us have all run trains under the weather with colds the flu stomach issues I would be willing to bet a few have done it with Covid. Its work and get paid or stay home and loose a days pay. Sorry kids no sick days for T&E here.
Now that it's the weekend and I have a bit more brainpower to devote to the forums... I get what you're saying. On a plane, the risk of crashing is high. On a train, that risk is low, lower with PTC.

So what you end up with a dead engineer is... a four hour train delay, and maybe some bus subsitution. Maybe an engine swap. That's it.

Now lets go from engineer to the "cabin crew" or attendants and conductors. You got an asymptomatic crew member who somehow got a false negative. Still masking everywhere, and all the nutcases who say "no more!" tossed out. That rare case of transmission happens... and two weeks later it's fatal (or debilitating) to a passenger.

Guess who the family of that passenger is going to sue?

That's right, the carrier, even though it may be prohibited by law. There's going to be a liability claim that has to get adjudicated or arbitrated. Ether way, even to get it dismissed, it's going to cost money.

Settle for a ton of cash, or save it for free by having everyone get their shots which are already paid for by the government. Hmmm... decisions decisions...

...and guess what. We have a way "out": If an employee claims a religious exception, they should carry personal liability insurance deducted from their pay. Medical is understandable (and yes, folks want to fake it, we can verify that). Religious... well, if you practice what you preach, I can see it. But if you're against stem cells but yet you took Tylenol in the past 20 years, I have to question your faith. Thus, the liability insurance -- put your money where your mouth is.
YET AGAIN PLEASE PROVE TO ME ONE EXAMPLE OF DEATH ACCIDENT OR OTHERWISE WHERE COVID WAS THE LEADING CAUSE and COULD BE TRACED TO AN AMTRAK EMPLOYEE in the past 24 MONTHS I AWAIT YOUR REPLY.

Amtrak is going to be pretty stern about this NO JAB NO WORK, PERIOD END OF SENTENCE SEE YA LATER HAVE A NICE DAY 2 TO 3 YEARS OF APPEALS and maybe just maybe you will get your job back. Even the union have made it quite clear it would be better to get the jabs than risk your job going for an accommodation. . Ohh there might be a few that get some form of accommodation but I doubt any in T&E. Plus how in the world could you prove that a crew member you were exposed to for two to three minutes was able to give you enough viral load to pass along the Covid with proper masking in place. AGAIN I'LL WAIT.

Remember follow the science...

Not worried about me had both my jabs in Feb and Mar not scared of the Covid but I respect it.
Last edited by Railjunkie on Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:09 am, edited 3 times in total.
 #1582745  by 8th Notch
 
CarterB wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:28 am I predict massive Amtrak shutdowns for lack of employees.
That’s a stretch, as of now I would say little to no disruption on the corridor. Off corridor and non T&E crafts are the biggest question mark as of now.
 #1582747  by GirlOnTheTrain
 
Pretty sure any service disruptions due to lack of employees is not due to vaccination or refusal thereof, but staffing shortages due to prolonged hiring freezes.

People talk a lot of garbage about how they would quit before getting vaccinated - but when push comes to shove...they're not going to make the kind of money they make elsewhere. They'll get the shot begrudgingly to keep the money flowing.
 #1582881  by CSRR573
 
I can say for mechanical in Boston, i know of only a handful of employees that have yet to get the shot. Interesting to see if they will stand their ground and get fired. Its already too late to make the Nov 22 deadline if you haven't got the first moderna shot. Management is pretty firm on reminding us that come the deadline if your not fully vaccinated, bye Bye!
 #1583362  by BitterOldRRExec
 
eolesen wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:36 pm If you're vaccinated, you're protected, so it shouldn't matter if you're sitting next to someone unvaccinated.
People like Colin Powell might disagree.
The question nobody wants to answer is why the vaccines aren't working as expected.
What do you mean? They were never expected to be 100% effective.
 #1583373  by WashingtonPark
 
BitterOldRRExec wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:44 pm
eolesen wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:36 pm If you're vaccinated, you're protected, so it shouldn't matter if you're sitting next to someone unvaccinated.
People like Colin Powell might disagree.
The question nobody wants to answer is why the vaccines aren't working as expected.
What do you mean? They were never expected to be 100% effective.
I don't think Colin, or anybody else in a similar condition, was planning a trip on Amtrak.
 #1583396  by STrRedWolf
 
BitterOldRRExec wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:44 pm People like Colin Powell might disagree.
Colin was battling cancer at the same time as COVID-19, and it was reported he was immunocompromized (immune system not working to military spec) because of the cancer.
The question nobody wants to answer is why the vaccines aren't working as expected.
What do you mean? They were never expected to be 100% effective.
These were told to be 85% to 95% effective last year and is in FDA/CDC documentation. You have to admit, those are darn good odds... and if you get it, it keeps you from dying in an ideal situation. Colin was not ideal, and was about to get a booster when he died.

If all the info you're getting about COVID-19 is from one news source, it's highly recommended you start looking at other sources, and pull info straight from the horses mouth (FDA/CDC).
 #1583402  by Gilbert B Norman
 
There are reports at another site that a recent Auto-Train "turn", i.e. LOR-53-SFA-52-LOR, operated with a "short" on-board crew. As a result, all meals were served to passengers in their rooms and there was no service in the Sleeper Lounge car. Additionally, the report noted that the LOR outside contractor valet service was "short staffed" so there would be delays in having passengers' autos returned.