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Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1581550  by NYCRRson
 
"modern control systems make it difficult to throw a switch immediately in front of or under a train"

The old mechanical interlocking plants installed way back in the 1920's and 1930's would not allow you to quickly change a route through an interlocking after it was set and "clear" signals where displayed for a train to enter and pass through.

There was a forced delay involved. You could change a route through the interlocking, but you had to set it to display stop signals on the selected through route and then wait several minutes (depending on the interlocking design) before it would allow a change of route.

And the interlocking machine (part mechanical / part electrical) would not allow any route changes on "running" tracks that where occupied. You could route a "station" track that was occupied by a standing train to an unoccupied "running" track to get the train out of the station, but the standing train would see a stop signal until the route was completed to an unoccupied "running" track.

And that was without computers....
 #1581560  by eolesen
 
Great conversation about how hard it is to throw a switch, but I'm not sure it matters.

If truck hunting was going on, it's not unheard of for a wheel to ride up and take the diverging route even though the the points locked in place.
 #1581574  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Wow Mr. Olesen, the last major truck hunting affair involving Amtrak was with the SDP-40F's resulting in every road save the ATSF to issue the edict "get those things off my property ASAP".

The terms resulting in EMD providing a like number of F-40's (considering I still watch them coming by my house - if I'm standing on my front yard after the foiliage is gone - likely the most successful "public passenger train" era engine yet built) have never been disclosed. Those engines, with road numbers starting at #230, did have some parts salvaged from the like number of SDP-40's traded in, and were designated F-40PHR; R for rebuilt. Some "wags" named them the "Paul H Reistrups" after a "reasonably competent and successful" Amtrak CEO (he was no WGC, but then not a GW).
 #1581576  by Railjunkie
 
The last Amtrak equipment that I can remember having truck hunting issues were the MHC cars. That was a boring night sitting in some inspection car with a bunch of white hats looking at video and computer screens as we took a 79mph joy ride down the Hudson.
 #1581578  by J.D. Lang
 
Wow Mr. Olesen, the last major truck hunting affair involving Amtrak was with the SDP-40F's resulting in every road save the ATSF to issue the edict "get those things off my property ASAP".
The SDP40-F's were the cause of the derailment that I was in on Dec. 76. C-C trucks and the boiler and water tank weight caused the rails to spread on a 55 MPH curve when we were going 53mph. That was the death kneel for them. BN immediately banned them from the property.
The last Amtrak equipment that I can remember having truck hunting issues were the MHC cars
That was the cause of the LSL derailment in Batavia, NY.
 #1581608  by R36 Combine Coach
 
Railjunkie wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:43 am The last Amtrak equipment that I can remember having truck hunting issues were the MHC cars.
That's why they had speed restrictions, Regionals with MHCs on the Corridor could not reach the 110/125
top speed.
 #1581615  by Gilbert B Norman
 
so long as we are addressing truck hunting (before the Board has suggested it was a factor) here, all parties concerned with procuring the SDP-40F and using such for passenger trains (guess what everyone; they have been used in freight), Amtrak should have come to "my MILW" for a "little advice". The FP-45 was ordered circa 1966 (I wasn't with the MILW then; was in Service) for passenger service. There were several publicity photos, including one that found its way into TRAINS around September 1967 with these engines on the lead. However, before any derailment occurred, they were quickly relegated to trailing units. They never say their way on to any Amtrak train operated by the MILW during the "100% Purchase of Service" days.

Of interest, I was once on the head of #8 as part of "what to do with the trainees". Sitting on the Fireman's side of the SDP-40F, near Columbus WI, I noted we were barely moving at 50mph and I asked him (MILW employee) if there was a slow order (I didn't note any on my review). About then, the (MILW employee) Engineer heard me. His response "hey college boy, want something to really write up? How say I run at track speed (70) and spill this thing. Have fun writing THAT up!!!".
 #1581636  by Railjunkie
 
J.D. Lang wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:35 am
Wow Mr. Olesen, the last major truck hunting affair involving Amtrak was with the SDP-40F's resulting in every road save the ATSF to issue the edict "get those things off my property ASAP".
The SDP40-F's were the cause of the derailment that I was in on Dec. 76. C-C trucks and the boiler and water tank weight caused the rails to spread on a 55 MPH curve when we were going 53mph. That was the death kneel for them. BN immediately banned them from the property.
The last Amtrak equipment that I can remember having truck hunting issues were the MHC cars
That was the cause of the LSL derailment in Batavia, NY.

Sorry Mr Lang the MHCs I speak of were basically HiCube 40ft box cars which were placed into service well after the derailment in Batavia. A side not I worked with the engineer conductor and asst conductor of that train numerous times before they retired.
 #1581674  by BandA
 
Usually you see these things and it is pretty obvious what happened. Not this time. No matter what the cause, I think 3-point seat belts would help in the future.
 #1581675  by justalurker66
 
eolesen wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 4:24 amGreat conversation about how hard it is to throw a switch, but I'm not sure it matters.

If truck hunting was going on, it's not unheard of for a wheel to ride up and take the diverging route even though the the points locked in place.
Would that cause the last three cars of the train to disconnect from the seven cars and engines ahead of it and end up on their sides several hundred feet away from the switch? I'm not buying any speculation that focuses on the switch (unless corrected by the FRA/NTSB). Something happened far east of the switch.
 #1581678  by MattW
 
BandA wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:30 pm Usually you see these things and it is pretty obvious what happened. Not this time. No matter what the cause, I think 3-point seat belts would help in the future.
Good luck with that. Unless you do a Disney and say "no standing until stopped" it just won't work, and if they try that, Amtrak is done.
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