Railroad Forums 

  • Removing The Secret Minute at the Terminal Station

  • Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.
Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

Moderator: Liquidcamphor

 #1580491  by photobug56
 
Every once in a while LIRR needs to grow a pair to stand up to certain entities trying to extort them. And to stick to the truth. I'm told, for instance, the reason every train leaves at least one minute late from origin points is for late passengers. Well, maybe on the last daily run out of HP, but on all others, show up and depart on time. Stand up to union extortion (treat your workers with respect but expect the same back). Discuss with community ahead of time and during, but don't put up with NIMBYism. Or this nonsense.
 #1580506  by workextra
 
The one mine difference is to really reduce delays out of western terminals.
To give the crews time to close the doors and give the engineer permission to depart.
Leaving time is unless otherwise stated the time the wheels are actually rolling.
Leaving time IS NOT THE FOLLOWING:
1) the time the train opens the doors
2) the time the doors begin to close
3) the time the passenger feels like arriving in the parking lot :wink:
4) the time the train is due into your station
Leaving time IS:
The the time the wheels are rolling out of your station

If leaving time is 5:02 pm that means the conductor rings the bells and begins to close the doors in the 5:01 pm minute.
Depending on the condition they could ring at 5:01:00 or at 5:01:30 for example,
But come hell or hight water at 5:01:59 the signal to proceed is given. And the wheels begin to roll.
And you, we’ll. You’re early for the next one! :P

In the western terminals this is actually built into the timetable to give the crews an extra minute to pick up some seriously “Dashing commuters” But elsewhere it’s up to the perspective passengers to know the following:
The train is due out of my station at 5:02pm that means I better be on the platform prepared to board no later than 4:59:45pm

All this however is in a perfect by the book situation and explained for interpretation purposes only.

Did they suspend service to MAV yet HAHA
 #1580519  by photobug56
 
Schedule needs to be believable. The '5:01' should leave at that time, doors closed shortly before. But there's an old problem at Penn. Trains can be on platform 20 minutes ahead without any announcement until 3 minutes before departure. Some sort of torture game, I guess. so dispatchers can watch on camera while desperate passengers mob the stairs and platforms to try to squeeze onto the train.

Here's a better one. Some years ago I was waiting for the 5:35. We got all the announcements, the display's updated, only one problem. No train. And at 5:35, All Aboard over the PA, boards cleared.

I used to check the time every morning when my train would arrive versus the sometimes audible announcements. Most days, train would arrive 3 to 4 minutes past our DEPARTURE time but PA and displays would say the train was on time. BTW, my station does not have canopies and has only one semi usable shelter despite a 'station rebuild'. In bad weather, knowing for REAL when the train will pull in makes a difference. Now on days when the train was officially late, all we knew for sure was it was late, because the minutes late or ETA was pure fantasy. Now in a driving cold rain, accuracy of ETA is critical. But we all knew that LIRR was incapable of telling the truth.
 #1580526  by workextra
 
Photo,
We can continue this on a separate thread,
But let’s be real here, there is so many dynamics involved in routing trains through Penn Station that miss information get out to the public. It’s also an issue when a train is posted and given the “all aboard” prematurely as you described without the train even arriving in the station. Embarrassing but you need to understand these people are like robots saying the same thing over and over, it’s very easy to misspeak and call the wrong train not even knowing, especially with all the “heat” during the rush hour.

I for one would be fine saying that I’d the ETT SAYS the train departs wantagh at 6:01AM
THE PTT says 6:00AM. it’s basically protection for the passenger, think of it like a 1 minute insurance policy.
I’ve been on trains that arrived 40 seconds to leaving time, and closed the doors 10 seconds to leaving time, leaving (wheels rolling) at the advertised time.
You would see the commuters (used to that train always running late) running across the street trying in vein to make it. In their disbelief they never seen lirr on time.
So though I agree with the plight, the regulars who ride should be thankful for that extra minute to Pick up the stragglers.

Off topic,
Not calculating legit equipment, infrastructure, and weather delays.
90% of the delays are cause by the passengers them selves.
That number does drop when you include the other aforementioned factors, but remains pretty large overalls. It’s on fortunate but true.

Back to the program. PM me if you want to discuss OTP
 #1580536  by Head-end View
 
Japan is a much, much different culture than we are. They are very rigid and exacting in their personal style as well as their society as a whole. I understand that many Japanese executives suffer from severe stress from overwork as a result of the Japanese lifestyle. In America we might actually be better off in some ways. But that's a whole other subject.
 #1580539  by ExCon90
 
It's certainly true that there's a cultural difference in the entire society that would probably take us a generation to change. The situation is very similar in Switzerland, where train travel is an everyday event in the lives of most people, and everyone, passengers included, does their utmost not to be the klutz who made the train late.
 #1580550  by workextra
 
I can see the law suits about who’s feelings for hurt or who’s claiming sexual. Harassment by the platform pushers as they’re pushing the people into the train!
This is getting comical now :-D
 #1580652  by Kelly&Kelly
 
The one minute difference is only added to Brooklyn and Penn Station times. It is "Gate Time" and permits the interval for passengers to pass through the gate upstairs at the published time, navigate the staircase and board their train before it leaves.

WorkExtra explains this as a 30 year veteran.

Traditionally, at leaving time the gate is closed "on the advertised," and passengers have one minute to get down the steps until the timetable directs the train to depart.

This is a 130-year old standard established by the PRR -- The Standard Railroad of the World -- wherever loading gates are present.
 #1580679  by ExCon90
 
It seems like a lot of fuss about nothing, considering that GCT, another MTA property, has been doing that since NYC and NH days, and probably right from the beginning. Etts from the 1950's show the Century leaving at 6.01 pm and the Merchants at 5.01 pm.
 #1580687  by photobug56
 
ExCon90 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:07 pm It's certainly true that there's a cultural difference in the entire society that would probably take us a generation to change. The situation is very similar in Switzerland, where train travel is an everyday event in the lives of most people, and everyone, passengers included, does their utmost not to be the klutz who made the train late.
Just the opposite here. Sure, we all want to be safe and comfortable from boarding to exiting, but lots of LIRR passengers are, put politely, selfish. Now I might need to put my knapsack on top - but I try to be as much out of the way as possible. Some people, not so much. I wouldn't think of putting my feet up on the seat, or bringing smelly, offensive food aboard. Etc.
 #1580688  by photobug56
 
Kelly&Kelly wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:58 am The one minute difference is only added to Brooklyn and Penn Station times. It is "Gate Time" and permits the interval for passengers to pass through the gate upstairs at the published time, navigate the staircase and board their train before it leaves.

WorkExtra explains this as a 30 year veteran.

Traditionally, at leaving time the gate is closed "on the advertised," and passengers have one minute to get down the steps until the timetable directs the train to depart.

This is a 130-year old standard established by the PRR -- The Standard Railroad of the World -- wherever loading gates are present.
One minute delay on a long distance train ought to have little effect. But the only reason I know to do this on LIRR at, say, Penn, is that too often trains are not announced until a few minutes before departure even if they've been on platform for the last 20 minutes. To commuters, just another sign NOT to believe LIRR is telling the truth. Or on time.