Amtrak: Connects US // American Jobs Plan Infrastructure Legislation

njtmnrrbuff and scratchyX1... the PennDOT study last year and the Phoenixville are basically commuter trains to Center City Philadelphia where as Amtrak is trying to replicate the Keystone Service, but going to Reading instead of Harrisburg. Amtrak has no desire to run through the Center City Tunnels and have 3 additional station stops with 30th Street Upper, Suburban, and Jefferson.

I think the Amtrak proposal is a good idea, but I think it needs to be done in conjunction with the PennDOT study from last year, which was basically an extension of some Norristown Line trains using dual modes.

I recall the study calling for dual modes. Like amtrak now has on order.
I think the Norristown line does run to 30th street.

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:14 pm I recall the study calling for dual modes. Like amtrak now has on order.
I think the Norristown line does run to 30th street.

The PennDOT/Phoenixville proposals run through the Center City Tunnel. Amtrak seems really adverse to such an idea.

Maybe because all their other services use the Lower Level; going through the tunnel would mean some New York departures, including Keystone, would leave from the LL, while the trains from Reading would use the UL. Further complicating things would be the duplicate track numbering: LL 1-10, UL 1-6. I think they should have made the UL 11-16 when they did the rehab -- which could still be done.

As to njtmnrrbuff's post above, running via Norristown is a must, providing connections to the Regional Rail locals, NHSL (ex P&W), and local buses. Bridgeport, across the river, isn't even convenient to Norristown.

My first time at 30th streets station was also confused with the duplicate track numbering. I believe they were using a chalk board as the soled board not operating ?

ExCon90 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:49 pm As to njtmnrrbuff's post above, running via Norristown is a must, providing connections to the Regional Rail locals, NHSL (ex P&W), and local buses. Bridgeport, across the river, isn't even convenient to Norristown.

I think that is the best case for restoring service via the Cynwyd Viaduct. It looks like you could actually run one track and retain the trail. From an infrastructure perspective it is likely more expensive than restoring the connection at Zoo, but gives more flexibility and service to Norristown.

It also keeps Amtrak trains on Amtrak ROW and under Amtrak dispatch for the longest time.

I agree going via Cynwyd makes more sense than the roundabout route via the tunnel then the former RDG line to 16th St. Jct. and the line to Norristown. It would mean fixing the bridge across the Schuylkill not sure what is involved there.

jonnhrr wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:25 am I agree going via Cynwyd makes more sense than the roundabout route via the tunnel then the former RDG line to 16th St. Jct. and the line to Norristown. It would mean fixing the bridge across the Schuylkill not sure what is involved there.

The route they’re proposing isn’t via the CCCC, it’s via the CSX High Line and the NS HBG main. It’s pretty direct. Never comes under wire though.

The Manayunk Bridge was structurally analyzed in the mid 90s and was determined to be in good health. It is now functioning as a trail. This has caused quite a stir in Lower Merion, and it is likely that removing the trail would generate almost as much support as it would backlash.

There's also one other complication: The upper level of 30th Street is all now behind fare gates for SEPTA Regional Rail. So Amtrak can't go there.

What options do we have?

If we stay with a Keystone style service at 30th street, we have two options: rebuild the track between Cynwyd and Manayunk, or connect to CSX's Hamburg Subdivision at ZOO, handover to NS Harrisburg Line, and bridge over the Schuylkill River to get to SEPTA track.

If we can get away from 30th street, we can actually take an old PRR line just east of Norristown called the Trenton Branch (NS Dale Secondary). Get on that, and ride it all the way out to Trenton and NYC.

Ether way, from Norristown you can get back on the NS Harrisburg Line that goes to Redding. That's your straight shot.

Oops -- forgot all about the Upper Level fare gates: a dumb idea in the first place, involving a maintenance-intensive attempt by SEPTA to capture "the last dime every time" at all costs.

Getting from Manayunk to Norristown will require some on-the-ground inspection. There's a significant difference in elevation beetween the PRR and RDG row's from Manayunk at least to Ivy Ridge, and the old PRR alignment is now an integral part of a continuous hiking and biking trail extending from south of Center City Philadelphia to Valley Forge National Park and almost certainly untouchable. Use of the RDG line will involve conflicts with SEPTA locals, but at least not all the way into Philadelphia.

west point wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:08 am My first time at 30th streets station was also confused with the duplicate track numbering. I believe they were using a chalk board as the soled board not operating ?

Yes, it was a green board on which a uniformed usher wrote the information for each train with white chalk on a separate line, erasing it with a cloth after the train departed. It was in continuous use until it was replaced (1960's? 1970's?) by the Solari board which was replaced in its turn a short while ago.

Tonight the house finally passed (concurred to the senate amendment) the bipartisan infrastructure bill. It's on its way to Joe's desk. Amtrak just got a few billion dollars richer. This bill likely just guaranteed that gateway and possibly more will get done.

Hooray! After almost a full year of negotiating with the Republicans, the Democrats managed to pass a $1.75 trillion infrastructure bill instead if the original $5 trillion! I'm guessing rail has something in the likes of just over $75 billion in whole? Amtrak still needs their $66 billion in order to be properly maintained.

At this rate, enough will never be enough to bring passenger rail to its full potential, including HSR, while funded by the government since funding has to be considered with other programs which have to be funded. In order to allow for expansion to 1940s levels of frequent passenger service and improved quality, this would require at least a few trillion for the passenger rail industry alone, which would either involve cutting funding for other programs or substantially raising taxes: both of which will be met with fierce opposition from politics and NIMBYS alike.

This nation should be encouraging private investment in passenger rail and infrastructure instead of relying on the government to slowly debate and eventually build it over the course of 10+ years for any given project. This way, each company can focus on improving frequency and quality in a designated region instead of the whole nation. This is a concept I've stated too many times on this site, and it should seriously be considered in order to bring the passenger rail sector back to its full potential.

While it might be said this video is propaganda for a software vendor who I guess would like a "piece of the action", It nevertheless is informative:

https://youtu.be/BYVMxVcsRZM

Now regarding the passage finally by both legislative Houses, The Times reports that there were an excess of ten votes over the "magic 218" of which, rightly, Col. Perkowski reminds us. Of interest, "The Squad" all were NAY; never mind "Squad Leader" AOC (D-NY1) represents an area (Lower Bronx and into Queens) that will disproportionally benefit from the projects; e.g. Gateway.

What I'm "in the dark" about at this time, is how much, if any, does this soon to be enacted legislation represent an "Appropriation" (you WILL spend this amount of $$$$ on these particular projects) or an "Authorization" (it would be nice to spend "this" on "that" in the years ahead).

So far as Bernie's, Liz's, and "The Squad's" social legislation, just take that "piece by piece". I think a strategy of "fly it under the radar" would be best for its proponents.

Finally, at sites that offer mature and respectful non-rail "Open Discussion", I have noted that I'm doubtful if Joe will complete his term. Enactment of this legislation - the piece he wants, as distinct form the social legislation that I think was being forced upon him masquerading as "infrastructure", is certainly a "plus" for him to hang around a bit longer - maybe even until 1/20/25.